Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-22-2022, 01:15 AM   #1
Boge
 
Boge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Default Archery in this game kind of sucks.

I get that it's more realistic being slower and doing less damage than a sword or axe slash, but this is a game. There should be some gameplay balances that make bows a bit more useful.

I just played a session where my group attacked an outpost of soldiers geared in mail...not too rare for a fight. ST 13 , skill 18 with strongbow, but the best bow I could get my hands on was 14. So 50% of the time I won't deal any damage to an armored foe IF I can even hit them in the first place. The fight starts 30 yards out, so I can take time on my first shot only to try hitting in an unarmored spot. I miss the face by one and hit the armor where it plinks off, no surprise. The melee combatants rush in and somehow make it there within a round..??? Okay, I can't be a rules lawyer, so I don't say anything and just fast draw and ready another arrow while the melee characters are rapid striking the enemies for 2+ dice damage each swing.

Needless to say, that's how the combat went and it just isn't fun. Penalties are way too high to be able to hit in any weak points. Damage is too low to do anything otherwise. It would cost me another 40 points to get Heroic archer and Weapon master which would net me a +2 accuracy on each shot and a +2 damage on each shot...for 40 points.

Conclusion, bows suck in turn by turn combat in Gurps. I made this character because I thought it might be fun or cool, but it's just useless is all.
/rant
Boge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2022, 01:34 AM   #2
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

Well bows in real life were not that effective against armoured troops, except in salvos.
So realistic rules will make them less than ideal. However, GURPS has many cinematic options that increase their effectiveness.
What point total and books are available in your campaign?
Knowing that we might be able to suggest better options for you.
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2022, 01:42 AM   #3
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

This is a game, so if your character spends the points to be superhuman, he can be. But if you just spend the points to be a human archer, you can't shoot through metal armour, any more than your character can walk on water or through walls.

Archery is useful at range, but at melee ranges, normal people draw melee weapons. If you don't want that, spend points on archery-adjacent superpowers, like Heroic Archer, Weapon Master (Bow), etc.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2022, 02:02 AM   #4
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

Nobody else going to call out that unless everybody else is packing cinematic/super powers, as described the GM just blatantly erased the range that the archer needed to even remotely justify their specialty? I mean, 30 yards of clear ground isn't really enough to give a non-cinematic archer great results, but it's more than one round. (Unless you meant one round after you spent a round drawing your bow and a round aiming and a round shooting. 4 rounds is probably enough time for people charging at each other to close 30 yards in GURPS.

That is, to a significant degree the problem you're having isn't with GURPS, it's with your table having zero interest letting you use archery.

Now that said, it's quite likely you don't in fact want to play non-cinematic archery in GURPS. Because when you're doing it right, the 'melee guys' aren't in melee while you do it. They're standing around watching you plant arrows in out-of-reach enemies. Or preferably, they're shooting their own missile weapons alongside you, but gamers are often conditioned to think of melee and missile combat as separate roles.

If a GM wants to enable archery and melee happening simultaneously, making sense, and not using cinematic archer abilities, there probably needs to be hard-to-reach ranged-attacking enemies that the melee types will appreciate the archer removing.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2022, 02:37 AM   #5
FrackingBiscuit
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
That is, to a significant degree the problem you're having isn't with GURPS, it's with your table having zero interest letting you use archery.
I second everything Ulzgoroth says. The way you tell the story, it sounds like the table let you get one shot off, and after that just fast-forwarded to the melee and left you in the dust.

About the only thing I can add is to point out that bodkin points give a (2) armor divisor, and the only cost is changing to piercing damage. With Weapon Master you'd basically ignore DR 4 or lower.
FrackingBiscuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2022, 06:40 AM   #6
The Colonel
 
The Colonel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
This is a game, so if your character spends the points to be superhuman, he can be. But if you just spend the points to be a human archer, you can't shoot through metal armour, any more than your character can walk on water or through walls.

Archery is useful at range, but at melee ranges, normal people draw melee weapons. If you don't want that, spend points on archery-adjacent superpowers, like Heroic Archer, Weapon Master (Bow), etc.
I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that baseline GURPS actually makes archery more effective than it is in real life...

Same sort of reason it's so hard to make an unarmed build that can match armed melee or any kind of melee build that does well against firearms... luckily there are things in the GURPS toolkit that can make these things work... if the campaign is set up like that.
The Colonel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2022, 07:35 AM   #7
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

How the heck did the melee fighters cover 30 yards in 1 melee round?

Of course your character is going to suck in combat compared to speedsters with 60-100+ points in increased Move, Enhanced Move, Warp, etc.

On a meta level, I'd argue that your archery actually made a huge difference if it kept the bad guys heads' down while the melee fighters closed the gap. Assuming the GM wasn't being a jerk or just setting the scene incorrectly nearly getting shot in the face might have convinced the bad guy's leader to take cover. His minions then followed his lead.

That said, the encounter was specifically designed to make ranged fighters suck. No enemy ranged fighters to keep the party's melee fighters on their toes, no obstacles to keep the melee fighters at bay and let the ranged fighters shine, and obviously "time warping" the combat to nerf range fighter effectiveness.

Played fairly, you should have gotten at least 2 shots even without Fast-Drawing arrows, the second shot at considerably closer range.
Pursuivant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2022, 04:25 AM   #8
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boge View Post
The melee combatants rush in and somehow make it there within a round..?

Okay, I can't be a rules lawyer, so I don't say anything
Covering 30 yards in 1 second is pretty quick, the melee guys you were fighting sound superhuman.

Tactics can help, like maybe you should from the other side of a mud pit which slows down people running from it?

Or from the top of a hill, it should be harder/slower to run up hills, though I don't know if GURPS has rules for incline running.

Plus there's also letting your melee allies tank while you retreat to a new firing position.

If enemies follow youto chase you, they expose backs to your allies they ran past.
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2022, 04:42 AM   #9
tbone
 
tbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

I'm wondering what the exact damage and DR numbers were. At ST 14, the bow should do anywhere from 1d to 1d+3 (depending on type). A mail shirt has only DR 2 vs impaling attacks. Your chance of doing damage (if hitting) should have been good even for a short bow, guaranteed for a longbow or composite bow.
__________________
T Bone
GURPS stuff and more at the Games Diner: http://www.gamesdiner.com

RSS feed | Site updates thread | Twitter/X: @Gamesdiner (dormant until the platform is well again)

(Latest goods on site: No Big New Content of late, but the blogroll has returned to the sidebar, this page collects content edits/updates, and this page hosts minor notices and side thoughts of the sort that used to go to Twitter/X.)
tbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2022, 05:26 AM   #10
SilvercatMoonpaw
 
SilvercatMoonpaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

I can't offer any advice (not enough experience) but I can offer some sympathy: it sucks when you pick a cool option and then it doesn't work for whatever reason.
SilvercatMoonpaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bow, ranged combat


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.