Looks like the party will be without a cleric

[Anders]

It looks like the party will be without a cleric. I'm running Deep Night and the Star first - are clerics strictly necessary? I may have to add a henchman - or just have the first character that dies make a cleric.

[Mister Negative]

In my limited experience running DFRPG, no one in our group wanted to run a cleric, even when someone did and was hugely effective vs. undead. For whatever reason, the party just viewed 'cleric nulifies certain undead' as a given, rather than a cool, powerful ability of the Cleric in question, and the player of the cleric viewed the need to heal others as a drain on his resources and wanted to be more like a Holy Warrior or a Wizard.

Maybe your group has the same dynamics and expectations, and will just suck it up and spend a lot of money on potions. Clerics seem cool to me, but it may be the intentional lack of a defined pantheon and the intentional lack of a 'non-dungeon' society that turns people off. You don't get the 'customization' that you get with other games in playing Priests of the Whatever God, who have this specific ability, and you don't get the general social regard and influence that clerics tend to have in a lot of games that emphasize intrigue and interaction more than DFPRG.

Maybe playing without one will make them appreciate the role more?

[Anders]

We're playing in Nordlond so there are specific clerics for different gods (Hand of Asgard is an excellent supplement, buy it now), but clerics have a bad rep in our group.

[Dalin]

I personally love playing clerics, but I've definitely run DF and DFRPG adventures for groups that lacked them. In those cases, I've done one or more of the following:

• Start everyone with some healing potions or other magical healing options (or, alternately, suggest that they spend starting cash on them).
• Allow druids to use healing spells. (Especially if I don't think anyone is interesting in making a cleric in the future.) See this thread for a discussion of this option. You could extend this to other casters, too, if desired.
• Consider upgrading mundane healing abilities to be closer to supernatural. Nothing breaks if you buff the first aid skill, for example, or provide healing kits that basically act like potions.
• Look over the adventure with an eye toward any encounters that seem to require clerical abilities. Adjust by either changing the challenge or providing alternate solutions within the adventure. (If there's a horde of undead, maybe smart PCs can avoid them or find a blessed holy symbol that can repel undead.

Originally Posted by Mister Negative

You don't get the 'customization' that you get with other games in playing Priests of the Whatever God, who have this specific ability

In regards to this, I highly recommend Kevin Smyth's Hand of Asgard for Douglas Cole's Nordlond setting. It's a full pantheon with customized spell lists and holy abilities. They are Norse flavored, but could easily be repurposed for a non-Viking setting. They also provide great models for how to customize clerics and holy warriors a bit more. For <$7 the PDF is a steal. (The print book, though a bit more, is beautiful!)

Edit: I see HoA was already referenced while I was typing this up. I'll leave my recommendation here in case others poke into the thread.

[ULFGARD]

I approach the DFRPG with the idea that a party will have 4 - 6 members. I generally have 4 or 5 players, so that works out well. My theory is that my players can make any PC that fits within the game, even if that means importing rules, spells, etc., from standard GURPS DF.

In my current campaign, I have a dungeon alchemist and a wizard using spells from the DF Magical Styles supplement, as well as a thief-mage. The only "standard" character is a scout, and he's even drawn a couple of power-ups from the DF line. One player wanted to play a "half dragon," so I created a template which pretty much soaked up all of his starting points. It made for some very interesting encounters (including meeting the scout, who has dragonhide leggings).

It has been a long, long time since anyone has played a cleric. My tendency is to fill in the core party to bring the number up to 5 or 6 with NPCs which serve the dual purpose as acting as "party allies" and as guest characters when someone's curious and wants to give the game a try. They often serve dramatic purposes as well - the players were sad when their tough guy NPC died very thoroughly.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Dalin

• Allow druids to use healing spells. (Especially if I don't think anyone is interesting in making a cleric in the future.) See this thread for a discussion of this option. You could extend this to other casters, too, if desired

This may be a good general suggestion, but its a bad fit for Deep Night and the Star. Druids have a hefty penalty in that adventure.

[Anthony]

The basic problem is that being a healer is good for -- helping other people have fun. Now, that's not a bad thing, but it really shouldn't be a significant tradeoff against your own ability to have fun.

[tbone]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The basic problem is that being a healer is good for -- helping other people have fun. Now, that's not a bad thing, but it really shouldn't be a significant tradeoff against your own ability to have fun.

Sounds right. I suppose clerical healing could be jazzed up by making it more complex – say, potentially more powerful, but requiring the cleric to beat some difficulty target, possibly work in some complementary rolls, maybe make a petition to the gods for further effects, etc. etc. – but I don't know that that'd be fun.

Some players really like quietly helping others from the sidelines, and enjoy playing cleric PCs. For players who want more action, allowing more powerful combat spells is of course a good idea – or making existing clerical spells more potent in combat. Hm, here's a quick idea that'd require no modification to the profession, and nearly zero GM effort:

DFRPG has a few monsters that are damaged by healing spells. Expand that to lots of undead, demons, and other unholy abominations. Clerics can now use their boring ol' healing spells to righteously smite a wide range of uglies. (I don't think this would upstage other damage dealers; the cleric's FP cost is high. If anything, healing's "damage" vs monsters might need to be boosted to make it worth the FP cost.)

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The basic problem is that being a healer is good for -- helping other people have fun. Now, that's not a bad thing, but it really shouldn't be a significant tradeoff against your own ability to have fun.

If that's the case, or healing is considered a team resource, and not the Cleric doing something awesome to contribute to winning, how about giving the Cleric Comparmentalized Mind (only for healing spells). Then they get to do something fun on their turn in addition to healing someone if they need it.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by ericthered

This may be a good general suggestion, but its a bad fit for Deep Night and the Star. Druids have a hefty penalty in that adventure.

Yeah, I have strongly advised against playing a Druid in this adventure.