Best wish production

[hcobb]

Assuming a Goblin wizard with ST 8, DX 9 and a +5 DX Aided we get the following results.

IQ 17 wizards got an average of 12.3407 wishes

IQ 18 wizards got an average of 17.249 wishes

IQ 19 wizards got an average of 21.9519 wishes

IQ 20 wizards got an average of 25.2035 wishes

IQ 21 wizards got an average of 28.0956 wishes

IQ 22 wizards got an average of 28.7816 wishes

IQ 23 wizards got an average of 28.8511 wishes

IQ 24 wizards got an average of 28.9605 wishes

So IQ 22 hits 29 wishes for an 39 attribute caster which is by the book 4,300 XP character who took about eight years of adventuring (game time) to develop.

I'll need to work up the additional investment for all the other stuff that gets broken on failures to establish a fair price.

[TippetsTX]

All this does is to reinforce my decision to significantly reduce the availability and impact of 'wishes' in my version of TFT.

Wishes should be something rare and special, not to mention hard to earn.

[hcobb]

Suggestion: On the summon demon DX roll if you roll exactly 5 (charms don't help) the demon doesn't appear but grants one wish. Four is two wishes and three is three wishes. Each caster can only make one attempt a day to summon demons. There is no other way to manufacture wishes.

Using wishes is very easy. Just read off the carefully prepared standard text in the Sorcerer's tongue and roll 2/IQ.
Add one die for each of the following:
* You don't know the Sorcerer's tongue.
* You're not using a script.
* Your wish is non-standard.
* You are dying or otherwise unable to speak out your wish.

etc...

[hcobb]

Other options for limiting wishes.

Summon Demon summons demons from one small group. Once you've mined out that group you need to research a new variation to target a different group. If you share your variation with the Wizard's Guild then they'll give you one wish, but quickly bit mine that group to extinction.

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Other options for limiting wishes.

Summon Demon summons demons from one small group. Once you've mined out that group you need to research a new variation to target a different group. If you share your variation with the Wizard's Guild then they'll give you one wish, but quickly bit mine that group to extinction.

I think the key to limiting wishes will be the GM gradually revealing the unintended consequences of dealing with demonic forces. All transactions have a cost and balance must be maintained.

For example (as shared in another thread), in order to grant a wish for riches might require the demon to go out and kill some rich guy and steal his stuff which would make the wisher responsible for the death and could lead to them being hunted by the rich guy's family. That seems more like how a demon would operate to me.

See also, premises from the movies Wish Upon and The Box

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

I think the key to limiting wishes will be the GM gradually revealing the unintended consequences of dealing with demonic forces.

Yes, this became a theme in our TFT campaign even for exploiting various other types of magic or even mundane power dynamics. Our players never got into demon summoning, but even if they could, they would probably have expected our GMs to personalize the experience in interesting ways that would make the endeavor something you should expect serious risk and consequence from. But even if the PCs never do it, it's fun and useful to figure out if/when the NPC wizards in the world are doing it, and what the situation is.

We've been over several possibilities on these forums over the last few months, and I think there are countless interesting ways to do it, so I kind of like how genericly the rules present demons, though I think it could use a sentence along the lines of "why wizards don't mass produce wishes isn't common knowledge, and even demonologists don't know all the reasons why this spell isn't more commonly used. Each GM may want to consider what may or may not happen if and when wizards start to over-use the spell."

Some of my favorite ideas include:

* Demons vary widely in stats and abilities. (GURPS Magic has some fairly nice random demon generation tables which could be adapted to TFT and/or used for inspiration.) Some may have rather higher resistance to a battle of wills than expected, and/or have other unpleasant tricks.

* Some or all Greater Demons can't grant spells as described, though they may have some magic abilities and can try to do things to grant your wishes by doing things.

* Demons may hold grudges against wizards who extract wishes or otherwise abuse them, and may prepare surprises for them.

* Demons who have been summoned may re-appear later not under control of the caster, and/or bring friends, and/or astral project to haunt/torment a resented summoner, and/or do other mischief.

* The GM might develop the plane of existence the Demons exist on and have the demons be individuals with various wants, needs, abilities, allies, enemies, politics, etc., and the more you summon them, the more that stuff becomes relevant in one way or another.

Another example:
If you invoke a Greater Demon-Wish for an increased attribute, the Demon divines where there is an attribute adder magic item, and goes and gets it. If it's worn or carried by someone, the demon may need to fight, kill, or remove their arm, to get it and bring it to the wisher. They tend to pick items as near to the wisher as possible, and if someone who lost such an item makes such a wish, they tend to go back to the same item. This interestingly makes such items a bit dangerous to carry around...