Brawling

[Steve Jackson]

A Brawling skill was suggested. Hmmm. It should IMHO be BETTER than UC I, because a bar fighter is probably more dangerous than a larval stage martial artist. But I don't know anything about bar fighting except what I see on TV,, and I don't believe that :) So:

Brawling (1) (IQ 7) Experience with unscientific bar fighting.
• Improvised Weapons. You may “ready” a bottle into an (unthrowable) dagger, throw a mug as though it was a rock (1d-4 damage), or find a club in any piece of broken furniture.
• Punch. You do one extra hit of damage with bare hands in either HTH or regular combat.
• Dirty Fighting. You may choose to do two extra hits of damage with bare hands in either HTH or regular combat, but then the brawl is not “friendly.” Foes will fight back dirty, or grab weapons.

[tbeard1999]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

A Brawling skill was suggested. Hmmm. It should IMHO be BETTER than UC I, because a bar fighter is probably more dangerous than a larval stage martial artist. But I don't know anything about bar fighting except what I see on TV,, and I don't believe that :) So:

Brawling (1) (IQ 7) Experience with unscientific bar fighting.
• Improvised Weapons. You may “ready” a bottle into an (unthrowable) dagger, throw a mug as though it was a rock (1d-4 damage), or find a club in any piece of broken furniture.
• Punch. You do one extra hit of damage with bare hands in either HTH or regular combat.
• Dirty Fighting. You may choose to do two extra hits of damage with bare hands in either HTH or regular combat, but then the brawl is not “friendly.” Foes will fight back dirty, or grab weapons.

I like the first two. The dirty fighting rule seems overpowered since I suspect it will be used most of the time. Perhaps make it a once per fight option?

[Shostak]

I agree with Ty, and hazard a guess that pretty much all fights are dirty unless they are part of a sport.

[JLV]

To quote Vince Lombardi; "Winning isn't everything, but losing isn't anything." (At least, I think it was his quote...)

I'd say that any fight tends to be "dirty" unless it's two friends having a set-to for laughs. Marquess of Queensberry Rules aren't really used when the chips are down...

[Dave Crowell]

I have been in fights that weren't "dirty", but they also weren't serious. A couple of shoves and punches to establish dominance and pecking order. As soon as they got dirty they got mean and serious.

Among RPG characters I expect that everyone would go for the "dirty" option right from the start because 2 points of damage is 2 points of damage.

[Jim Kane]

Agree with TY.

How about if a combatant with the Brawling Skill can pull one dirty-trick per fight; *and* the person having the dirty trick used on them must fail their IQ Roll for the trickster to use the trick on them effectively?

Addendum - As a GM, I would insist the player describe the dirty trick, and only if it sounds feasible and creative would I then roll to see if the NPC fell for the dirty trick; and would not allow the player to simple say: "I use a dirty trick."

JK

[Chris Rice]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

A Brawling skill was suggested. Hmmm. It should IMHO be BETTER than UC I, because a bar fighter is probably more dangerous than a larval stage martial artist. But I don't know anything about bar fighting except what I see on TV,, and I don't believe that :) So:

Brawling (1) (IQ 7) Experience with unscientific bar fighting.
• Improvised Weapons. You may “ready” a bottle into an (unthrowable) dagger, throw a mug as though it was a rock (1d-4 damage), or find a club in any piece of broken furniture.
• Punch. You do one extra hit of damage with bare hands in either HTH or regular combat.
• Dirty Fighting. You may choose to do two extra hits of damage with bare hands in either HTH or regular combat, but then the brawl is not “friendly.” Foes will fight back dirty, or grab weapons.

Improvised weapons. I always kinda assumed anyone could do that anyway. But maybe to make use of something larger, like a chair or table for more damage might be interesting.

Punch. +1 damage isn't very interesting as a Talent point.
Dirty Fighting. This is a bit more interesting and attractive.
Maybe combine these two into "Rough and Tumble", +1 unarmed/+2 HTH.

I think someone made a point on another thread that a "Brawler" should have a greater chance to initiate HTH and I agree.

The combination of these 3 aspects could make a worthwhile Talent

[Steve Jackson]

I expect the people defending my country to fight just as dirty as they have to, BEFORE the other guy gets there, so no problem on this side. But I don't imagine they were teaching you Brawling - I think it was real UC.

I think the mismatch of expectations is that I am thinking of Brawling as NOT really a serious combat skill - just a dominance game, in a world which is itself a game. If you really want to hurt somebody, bring a weapon. (Heinlein, paraphrased: "Force is the last refuge of the incompetent. The competent will use force sooner.")

Furniture fighting: Is any of that real? For instance, while you oomph a chair over your head, aren't you begging to get kicked anywhere from the waist down?

[Chris Rice]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

I expect the people defending my country to fight just as dirty as they have to, BEFORE the other guy gets there, so no problem on this side. But I don't imagine they were teaching you Brawling - I think it was real UC.

I think the mismatch of expectations is that I am thinking of Brawling as NOT really a serious combat skill - just a dominance game, in a world which is itself a game. If you really want to hurt somebody, bring a weapon. (Heinlein, paraphrased: "Force is the last refuge of the incompetent. The competent will use force sooner.")

Furniture fighting: Is any of that real? For instance, while you oomph a chair over your head, aren't you begging to get kicked anywhere from the waist down?

You've obviously never hit someone with a chair Steve. If you had, you'd know you do it from behind! It's highly effective by the way.

[Terquem]

I agree with what Mr. Jackson said about brawling earlier, specifically about women learning self defense - when our daughter was in college she took a self defense class and she laughed when the instructor was surprised to see her lash out so violently in the first few classes

Then she told him she had three brothers...

Edit - also wanted to add my two cents - the idea of comparing "brawling" say the kind of person that falls into the skill after years of a hard life on the streets should never be compared to any sort of trained martial arts, even the kind of "cage" fighting we see on television. In my opinion, brawlers learn faster how to size up their opponents and know when they are outmatched, when to fight dirty, and when to run away.

Of course then there are always the "theatrical" brawlers and the "intoxicated" brawlers - all different sorts of folks in my opinion.