Starleader Assault Reimagined

[enelsonmo]

I remember playing Melee and Wizard back in my misbegotten youth. I was super excited to find out about Staleader Assault, Melee in space as I thought of it, in one of the gaming mags at the time. When I played it, it was similar but distinctly different than the system used in Melee and Wizard. I thought it was ok but not as much fun as tft. My question is will there be an expansion for tft to take it into space? Is this something people would like to play?

[Terquem]

While I think the potential for many "alternative" Melee and Wizard format games exists. I don't think that is in the stars

{see what I did there, I kill me}

First, Starleader Assault was not a Steve Jackson designed game. The design, while promising in scope was underdeveloped, and has serious problems.

Second, I think I get the feeling that all Steve Jackson Games is really setting out to do here is re release a classic little game as cleaned up as they can make it, for nostalgia purposes mostly. The company has better games that start off where Melee and Wizard end up.

[zot]

Originally Posted by Terquem

Second, I think I get the feeling that all Steve Jackson Games is really setting out to do here is re release a classic little game as cleaned up as they can make it, for nostalgia purposes mostly. The company has better games that start off where Melee and Wizard end up.

Oh really? Let's just see what happens, shall we?

I have a feeling the number of customers may play a role in those decisions. SJ has been making posts about improving TFT. My impression is that TFT has a special place in his heart, as does it in mine and a lot of other fans, I think. I've even heard Ron Edwards say great things about it.

[zot]

See also this post...

[tbeard1999]

Originally Posted by Terquem

...The company has better games that start off where Melee and Wizard end up.

Then they should probably publish them.

[Rick_Smith]

>> Originally Posted by Terquem View Post
>> ...The company has better games that start off where Melee and Wizard end up.

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

Then they should probably publish them.

LOL. Nice one Ty.

I have used GURPS Space for game conventions, and I have used a High Tech TFT version for a Zombie Apocalypse campaign I once ran. As my TFT high tech rules have developed, I tend to use them more.

Warm regards, Rick

[tbeard1999]

Originally Posted by Rick_Smith

I have used GURPS Space for game conventions, and I have used a High Tech TFT version for a Zombie Apocalypse campaign I once ran. As my TFT high tech rules have developed, I tend to use them more.

Warm regards, Rick

Yeah, I can’t say enough good things about GURPs supplements in general. In particular, I consider GURPS Space to be indispensable (each edition was excellent and better than the previous one).

[DarkPumpkin]

I would LOVE to see a mini-box sci-fi TFT expansion. While the niche/idea is the same, I don't think that Starleader Assault will enter into the equation.

[zot]

Originally Posted by enelsonmo

I remember playing Melee and Wizard back in my misbegotten youth. I was super excited to find out about Staleader Assault, Melee in space as I thought of it, in one of the gaming mags at the time. When I played it, it was similar but distinctly different than the system used in Melee and Wizard. I thought it was ok but not as much fun as tft. My question is will there be an expansion for tft to take it into space? Is this something people would like to play?

I, for one am a huge fan of nontraditional fantasy settings. And tons of other people are too; from what I've heard, Wizards is releasing a Spelljammer campaign later this year (but not a whole setting book just yet) and most likely a Dark Sun campaign as well. These two were very nontraditional and had great appeal.

Cidri is definitely a science fantasy setting: Security Station Alpha. Heck, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks debuted at Origins in 1976!

If SJ Games doesn't release a space setting for TFT, someone else will...

[tbeard1999]

Originally Posted by enelsonmo

I remember playing Melee and Wizard back in my misbegotten youth. I was super excited to find out about Staleader Assault, Melee in space as I thought of it, in one of the gaming mags at the time. When I played it, it was similar but distinctly different than the system used in Melee and Wizard. I thought it was ok but not as much fun as tft. My question is will there be an expansion for tft to take it into space? Is this something people would like to play?

Having written several high-tech TFT variants, I think that the answer is "yes". I would not use the Starleader system, however. As I recall, it uses action points ala Snapshot/Azhanti High Lightning. Action point systems make decent enough tactical wargames, but tend to be too fiddly for RPG combat system use.

A high tech TFT system would need a couple of minor tweaks.

First, some kind of 'snapshot' fire that would let a figure fire a readied gun (at a DX penalty) during the movement phase. Otherwise, "panzerbushing" becomes a serious problem.

Second, a high-tech damage and armor scale would need to be developed. A recurring issue in high tech RPGs is how to handle damage vs penetration. If a single damage roll is used for both, higher penetration weapons become unrealistically lethal. This can be somewhat mitigated by a rule that limits the maximum damage a weapon can do.

In my variants, I've tried multiple approaches. Separate penetration ratings are fiddly in my opinion. Dividing weapons into armor piercing (armor protection is halved), normal and low penetration (armor protection is doubled) works okay.

The last variant I wrote used the Traveller 4 damage mechanic.

In that system, weapons do X d6 of damage. Most modern guns do 2-4 dice damage. Armor reduces the number of dice rolled. So an assault rifle (3d damage) when firing at a target wearing rigid ballistic armor (-2d) rolls 1 die damage.

Weapons have a maximum number of damage dice that can be rolled, after taking armor into account. This is usually 3d for small arms.

This allows a single mechanic to effectively be used for damage and penetration.

An advanced combat rifle firing armor piercing ammunition might be rated 5d damage. Against an unarmored person, it does 3d damage though.

Also, non-rigid armor reduces the indicated number of dice to a single point of damage. So an assault rifle (3d damage) when firing at a target wearing non-rigid ballistic armor (-2d) would roll 1+2 damage.

I allow low-tech (and magic) armor to work normally against low tech weapons. Against high tech weapons, I allow each 3 points of protection (round down) to provide -1d damage. Use the underlying armor to determine if it's non-rigid or rigid. None, cloth, leather, and chain would be non-rigid.

High tech armor stops 3 points of damage from low tech weapons per point of armor. So modern heavy ballistic armor (-2d) would stop 6 points of damage from a heavy crossbow or broadsword. Given the fact that modern armor tends to cover less of the body than low tech armor, you could roll the indicated number of dice - 2 dice, in this case - to see how much damage is stopped.

Use the normal TFT rules for range; pistols/shotguns are considered thrown weapons. Other weapons are missile weapons.

Another issue is calibrating modern weapon damage. Cinematic campaigns require characters to be more resilient. Rather than fiddle with weapon damages, I'd give PCs a certain number of "flesh wounds" per day. A flesh wound converts a hit into 1 point of damage, or even an outright miss.