Reference screen

[Steve Jackson]

The question came up as to whether TFT needed a ref screen - where "ref" could stand for either Reference or Referee.

My immediate reply was that I was not sure that the game required enough in the way of constantly-used charts, tables, etc., to make a ref screen worth killing trees for. But screens are handy if only for rolling dice and hiding maps. So I said to myself, "Self, ask the forum for thoughts."

My own first thought is "DX adjustments?"

[Skarg]

My thoughts:

1) I've almost never used an official GM screen, so as a non-fan of GM screens, I'd say my opinion matters less than people who are screen fans.

2) There are screen fans. See their replies.

3) While some people think some screens are perfect, it seems to me usually most people don't really want/need/use everything that's on a published screen. I remember with the original TFT screen people complained about typos, things we'd all memorized already, and some things no one thought they'd ever use, but some people loved it anyway mainly because it was the official TFT screen.

4) Some people modify their screens, and there are now high-quality third-party screens designed for players to put whatever they want on both sides. (e.g. http://a.co/bwUkFmU )

Personally, I'd say a screen is unnecessary but some people would surely buy it, but it seems to me (not really a marketer) that the officialness would tend to be a selling point, and that practically, it should at least be possible for people to put their own stuff on it.

I would think DX modifiers and short reminders about how various rules work would be appropriate and useful, e.g.:

Shield Rushes
Initiating HTH
Pinning
Multi-hex figure rules for engagement, shoving others around, trampling, getting out from under.
ST thresholds for being effected by how much damage
Aimed Shots & Critical Hits
Auto success/fail and triple/double/drop/break numbers for various numbers of dice rolled.
Mounted Rules
Casting spells without voice/gestures, etc.
Reaction table
Encumbrance level effects
Distance noise travels...

Whether you do or don't sell a screen, posting online some free 8.5" x 11" files people can print out and use on one of those fancy generic screens (or something they build themselves out of cardboard) would be useful for everyone.

[Kirk]

I, and my friends, all have their screens. We find them very valuable for many things, and especially for those lesser used concepts that are more difficult to find buried in the rules, but only require a quick scan of the screen to use without slowing down the game.

One example, *noise*! The number in the party, who's talking, distance, talents, doors, etc. all affect whether someone or a party might be heard. Not used enough to have every affect memorized, but certainly enough to need at hand.

Light effects, DX adjustments, options for engaged and disengaged players, basic unarmed attack value by ST, weights of items and associated penalties, the list goes on and on. Having to flip through the rules just slows play and frustrates everyone. "I'm grabbing the downed characters sword!" "OK, your movement is reduced by one because it weighs XXX and puts you over your limit". "In that case, I'll leave it."

We usually put the screen to the side for the GM unless he wants to stand the entire game (which sometimes they do) so that he can easily reference things without revealing what might be happening (anyone remember how far your torch can be seen and when a pack of wolves can hear you?) and yet still see the Players and the board.

This also allows secret die/dice rolls, even fake die rolls, to keep the mystery and interest on the upswing.

The players also usually have at least one, and sometimes one per player, for reference as well, and to keep the GM honest. "Hey, that door blocks noise by XXX, so the orc captain wouldn't have heard me with my silent movement," etc.

So, my vote is YES. A GM screen, *very* similar to the original TFT one ;), is very helpful and surely would be a go to purchase for both players and GMs.

And, of course, naturalistic, well-balanced, professional art to provide rest for the eye, and even better, a quick mnemonic to zero in on a particular value (say a small drawing of a sneaking thief for the noise section, a wrestler for damage due to ST section, a torch on a wall for the light effects section, etc.) would be ideal.

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

The question came up as to whether TFT needed a ref screen - where "ref" could stand for either Reference or Referee.

My immediate reply was that I was not sure that the game required enough in the way of constantly-used charts, tables, etc., to make a ref screen worth killing trees for. But screens are handy if only for rolling dice and hiding maps. So I said to myself, "Self, ask the forum for thoughts."

My own first thought is "DX adjustments?"

Oddly enough, the ONLY GM screen I ever really used was the Fantasy Trip one from Metagaming all those years ago. Reason? DX Adjustments! Plus there were a lot of other nifty things on there -- like the armor and weapon tables; which made snap-generating an NPC a lot easier.

If you get into more details in the "new" TFT, I could also see things like "saving rolls" versus disease or poison being on there, a facing diagram for various oddly shaped creatures, an encumbrance table, and that sort of thing being really useful, but, as a general rule, the original screen was pretty good (barring a few minor typos and some text that got crammed together too closely to make for easy reading -- huh, there's an idea -- a LARGE PRINT screen for us elderly types... ;-) ).

Edited to add: In fact, the original one had player-useful info on the PLAYER side of the screen, and I think that's a great policy to continue with...

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

The question came up as to whether TFT needed a ref screen

STEVE - Regardless of the practical or functional gaming value of a screen, from a stand-point of creating the complete and ultimate TFT product-package, I don't see how you can not include one; and risk potentially leaving a segment of TFT consumers feeling as though something is missing - even if they personally and ultimately find the screen itself to be part of "...a box of expensive, marginally useful components." - Howard Thompson.

We loathed and resented every word of HT's reasoning (q.v. Inside cover TFT:ITL, AM, AW) for not allowing you to deliver your baby the way you intended and according to your vision back in the day (Box, Screen, Die-cut Megahexes, counters, counters, and more counters, etc.).

Beyond the specific wants and desires of your fans and customers, I think many of us - more than anything else - want to see you put this thing together the way you wanted, BEFORE your vision was truncated, altered, and for all practical purposes, taken away from you.

It's your baby once again STEVE, so let your heart guide you, within budget, on this and ALL future considerations of this type. You know we will support you regardless which way you ultimately end-up bringing TFT back into the market.

So unless Accounting is telling you that the estimated cost projections are already giving everyone "cause for pause" with regard to how much "stuff" you can profitably include in a TFT package, I am wondering why you might consider potentially deleting an item which is essentially viewed as "de rigueur" with most game system product-packages ? - even if a percentage of folks leave it to reside in the bottom of the game box.

On the subject of Killing Trees: If conservationism and escalating cost-estimates are giving you spasmodic-fits late into wee hours of the morn, as you question the "needfulness" of a TFT GM Screen, why not consider splitting-the-difference and offering it as a Print-on-Demand Download, where the players who really want this accessory can assemble their own "official" copy at home, on reclaimed and re-purposed cardboard; as SKARG suggested above.

Or, why can't you simply make it part of a larger "Kick-starter Push-goal" accessory package, and increase the potential cash-flow opportunity for off-setting the funding needs of future TFT projects down the road?

Both are strong alternatives compared to the prospect of "going without".

JK

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Jim Kane

STEVE
We loathed and resented every word of HT's reasoning (q.v. Inside cover TFT:ITL, AM, AW) for not allowing you to deliver your baby the way you intended and according to your vision back in the day (Box, Screen, Die-cut Megahexes, counters, counters, and more counters, etc.).

Beyond the specific wants and desires of your fans and customers, I think many of us - more than anything else - want to see you put this thing together the way you wanted, BEFORE your vision was truncated, altered, and for all practical purposes, taken away from you.

It's your baby once again Steve, so let your heart guide you, within budget, on this and ALL future considerations of this type. You know we will support you regardless which way you ultimately end-up bringing TFT back into the market.

THIS. Like DE Ogre, I'd like to see you do TFT:AM/AW/ITL the way you originally envisioned the project. Sure, I imagine your standards for art work and component quality are higher now than they could have been back in 1981, but your original vision for the product was EXACTLY what I was hoping would be delivered. The decision to go with three books and nothing else was a great disappointment to me at the time, and I would love to have the product you actually planned for us to get. And yes, I'm willing to pay the required cost to get exactly that.

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by JLV

THIS. Like DE Ogre, I'd like to see you do TFT:AM/AW/ITL the way you originally envisioned the project. Sure, I imagine your standards for art work and component quality are higher now than they could have been back in 1981, but your original vision for the product was EXACTLY what I was hoping would be delivered. The decision to go with three books and nothing else was a great disappointment to me at the time, and I would love to have the product you actually planned for us to get. And yes, I'm willing to pay the required cost to get exactly that.

Do remember that the market has changed, unfortunately, with the advent of phombies that roam the planet, staring into their palms, viewing the real world through virtual reality, where a garbage dump looks like the garden of eden.

So there's the US, who remember rotary dial phones without a screen and bell bottom pants, and the THEM, who use a calculator to determine how far they will go in their car in an hour if they are going 65 miles per hour. What subset of these people know how to sharpen a pencil and sit down with friends to play a cooperative game without electronics? And more than that, what price point would be a barrier for them to even try it?

Be careful what you wish for! ;) A well-done set of rules, simple maps, and flat pieces might be the best approach...

[marctabyanan]

FM was a great song by Steele Dan. Oh, wait, what is the year again???

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Kirk

Do remember that the market has changed, unfortunately, with the advent of phombies that roam the planet, staring into their palms, viewing the real world through virtual reality, where a garbage dump looks like the garden of eden.

So there's the US, who remember rotary dial phones without a screen and bell bottom pants, and the THEM, who use a calculator to determine how far they will go in their car in an hour if they are going 65 miles per hour. What subset of these people know how to sharpen a pencil and sit down with friends to play a cooperative game without electronics? And more than that, what price point would be a barrier for them to even try it?

Be careful what you wish for! ;) A well-done set of rules, simple maps, and flat pieces might be the best approach...

Designer Edition Ogre was like the second highest grossing game-related Kickstarter in history when it finished back in 2012. So apparently there IS a market for the kind of game he originally envisioned in the 1970's and 80's. At least at Kickstarter. I also note that he is still producing new Ogre material now, six years later. So maybe going big is okay?

[GlennDoren]

I would be more inclined to use a nicely organized PDF on my ipad for quick reference. Easy to flip pages (or navigate via embedded links).

Perhaps a nice companion app for tablet?