High tech armor vs Ultra-tech armor

[Kfireblade]

So I'm having a problem with a TL8/9 game I am running. the UT armor at TL 9 aside from like, the combat hard suits, dose not really seem much better at all then the HT armor, and in once case is MUCH worse. the TL 8 advanced body armor is DR 35/5* and concealable. The TL 9 concealable armor dose not even begin to approach that in effectiveness. The Reflex vest is 12/4* and the tactical vest, which is not concealable is 18/7* unless you include plates.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Kfireblade

So I'm having a problem with a TL8/9 game I am running. the UT armor at TL 9 aside from like, the combat hard suits, dose not really seem much better at all then the HT armor, and in once case is MUCH worse. the TL 8 advanced body armor is DR 35/5* and concealable.

And isn't really really a real thing.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

And isn't really really a real thing.

I seem to recall it was based on some claims the manufacturer was never able to deliver on.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by RyanW

I seem to recall it was based on some claims the manufacturer was never able to deliver on.

Right. Attempting to make that armor using David's Cutting-Edge Armor Design article while using the listed thickness of the scales gives DR roughly half of HT's listed value, IIRC. YMMV, though; I'm still futzing with the three armor design articles.

That said, I'm having some troubles comparing the Reflex Vests in UT with the Concealable Vests in HT, given the numbers are almost identical....

[Kelly Pedersen]

Yeah, as the others have mentioned, the Advanced Body Armor stats in High Tech are generally considered rather implausible these days.

That said, it's still true that a lot of the Ultra-Tech armors are a bit lacklustre compared to High-Tech's stats. Ultra-Tech was written first by a good number of years, and some of its assumptions definitely don't match more recent GURPS books. It's a fair bit of work, but you could use the articles "Cutting Edge Armor Design" in Pyramid #3/85, and "Ultra-Tech Armor Design" from Pyramid #3/96. Together, they provide rules that should allow you to rebuild various ultra-tech armors in a way that makes them better than equivalent high-tech ones.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

That said, it's still true that a lot of the Ultra-Tech armors are a bit lacklustre compared to High-Tech's stats. Ultra-Tech was written first by a good number of years, and some of its assumptions definitely don't match more recent GURPS books. It's a fair bit of work, but you could use the articles "Cutting Edge Armor Design" in Pyramid #3/85, and "Ultra-Tech Armor Design" from Pyramid #3/96. Together, they provide rules that should allow you to rebuild various ultra-tech armors in a way that makes them better than equivalent high-tech ones.

As I'm reverse-engineering the DR of the armor from the thickness of the armors, using the DR/inch rather than assigning DR and working from that as the articles call for, do we have decent approximations for how thick fabric (particularly concealed and tactical vests), scale, mail, and plate armors should be?

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

do we have decent approximations for how thick fabric (particularly concealed and tactical vests), scale, mail, and plate armors should be?

Not that I know of, I'm afraid. I'm sure someone more familiar with real-world armor could supply some guidelines, though.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

As I'm reverse-engineering the DR of the armor from the thickness of the armors, using the DR/inch rather than assigning DR and working from that as the articles call for, do we have decent approximations for how thick fabric (particularly concealed and tactical vests), scale, mail, and plate armors should be?

Old thread, but since it's already been necromance'd - the armor design articles typically have rigid materials having a MaxDR that corresponds to 0.2" and flexible materials having a MaxDR that corresponds to 0.5". Armor made from flexible materials that is more than 0.25" thick ("more than half MaxDR") is no longer considered flexible and is instead rigid. I think one of them has rules on how thick armor can be to qualify as diaphanous (super thin), thin clothing, normal clothing, thick clothing, and heavy jackets - I believe it's "Ultra-Tech Armor Design" (Pyramid #3/96) that has those rules, but I could be mistaken.

Originally Posted by ssveter

Does anyone have the WM, CM, DR/in Max DR for Reflex for the table from PY3-85?

Not sure why you brought back a thread that's been dead for half a dozen years to ask this, but IIRC "Cutting Edge Armor Design" doesn't have a Reflex Armor entry - rather it has two possible materials that could work as "reflex armor," each of which has a three-letter abbreviation, although I can't recall what the abbreviations/names are. One has a bit better stats (and higher price) than the other, but also requires a power cell to operate. But I don't have those numbers on me.

[King Leonidas]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Yeah, as the others have mentioned, the Advanced Body Armor stats in High Tech are generally considered rather implausible these days.

That said, it's still true that a lot of the Ultra-Tech armors are a bit lacklustre compared to High-Tech's stats. Ultra-Tech was written first by a good number of years, and some of its assumptions definitely don't match more recent GURPS books. It's a fair bit of work, but you could use the articles "Cutting Edge Armor Design" in Pyramid #3/85, and "Ultra-Tech Armor Design" from Pyramid #3/96. Together, they provide rules that should allow you to rebuild various ultra-tech armors in a way that makes them better than equivalent high-tech ones.

really? you can buy like a 4 kilo plate that stops regular 50 cal FMJ at 500 meters+. put a kilo 8 one and it can stop a Hardened Steel core AP at point blank(you get the meaning of the term)

[Anthony]

I would note that the other problem with high tech armors is that they really don't layer the way GURPS makes them. A level IIIa vest is DR 12, so that implies two of them (DR 24) will stop or nearly stop 7.62 ball, three of them (DR 36) will stop 5.56mm AP, and 4 of them will stop 7.62AP. In reality... not even close. This should likely also be true for ultratech armors, it's a general issue with flexible armors that doubling thickness means about twice the energy to penetrate, while doubling hard armor thickness will probably require three to four times more energy.