Blasphemous Polyhedral Weapons Table

[tbeard1999]

Submitted for your approval...

Or your bitter denunciations, calls for burning at the stake, etc.

But before you light the torches, remember that polyhedrals are pretty. {ducks and runs for cover}

BLASPHEMOUS POLYHEDRAL WEAPONS TABLE (BPWT)
SWORDS
Dagger* d4
Rapier d6
Cutlass d8
Shortsword d10
Broadsword d12
Bastard Sword (1 hand) d12+1
Bastard Sword (2 hands)† d20-2
2-handed Sword† d20-1
Great Sword† d20+1

AXES/HAMMERS/MACES
Club* Varies
Hatchet* d6
Hammer* d8
Mace* d10
Small Ax* d6+2
Military Pick d12
Morningstar d12+1
Great Hammer† d12+2
Battle Axe† d20

MISSILE WEAPONS
Thrown Rock d6-4
Sling d4-1
Small Bow† d4
Horse Bow† d6
Longbow† d10
Light Crossbow† d12
Heavy Crossbow† d20
Arrows (20)
Crossbow Quarrels (20)
Sling Pellets (20)
Cranequin

POLE WEAPONS
Javelin* d4
Spear* d6
Spear (2 hands)*† d8
Halberd† d12
Pike Ax† d12+1
Trident* d6
Naginata† d10
Cavalry Lance d20-1
Pike† d12+1, OR
as a spear


PECULIAR WEAPONS
Quarterstaff† d10
Net* d6-3
Cestus (Notes)
Whip d4
Lasso* Varies
Boomerang* d12
Nunchuks d8
Spear Thrower +2
Blowgunt See Poison
20 Darts See Poison
Torch (Notes)
Table, Chair, etc.*?†? -
Wizard's Staff d6
Molotail* -
Gas bomb* -
Bola* -
Sha.ken* d6-2
Arquebust d20+3
Blunderbusst d10
Grenade (Notes)
Petard (Notes)
Gunpowder (1 charge) -

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

Submitted for your approval...

Or your bitter denunciations, calls for burning at the stake, etc.

But before you light the torches, remember that polyhedrals are pretty. {ducks and runs for cover}

WEAPONS TABLE
SWORDS
Dagger* d4
Rapier d6
Cutlass d8
Shortsword d10
Broadsword d12
Bastard Sword (1 hand) d12+1
Bastard Sword (2 hands)† d20-2
2-handed Sword† d20-1
Great Sword† d20+1

AXES/HAMMERS/MACES
Club* Varies
Hatchet* d6
Hammer* d8
Mace* d10
Small Ax* d6+2
Military Pick d12
Morningstar d12+1
Great Hammer† d12+2
Battle Axe† d20

MISSILE WEAPONS
Thrown Rock d6-4
Sling d4-1
Small Bow† d4
Horse Bow† d6
Longbow† d10
Light Crossbow† d12
Heavy Crossbow† d20
Arrows (20)
Crossbow Quarrels (20)
Sling Pellets (20)
Cranequin

POLE WEAPONS
Javelin* d4
Spear* d6
Spear (2 hands)*† d8
Halberd† d12
Pike Ax† d12+1
Trident* d6
Naginata† d10
Cavalry Lance d20-1
Pike† d12+1, OR
as a spear


PECULIAR WEAPONS
Quarterstaff† d10
Net* d6-3
Cestus (Notes)
Whip d4
Lasso* Varies
Boomerang* d12
Nunchuks d8
Spear Thrower +2
Blowgunt See Poison
20 Darts See Poison
Torch (Notes)
Table, Chair, etc.*?†? -
Wizard's Staff d6
Molotail* -
Gas bomb* -
Bola* -
Sha.ken* d6-2
Arquebust d20+3
Blunderbusst d10
Grenade (Notes)
Petard (Notes)
Gunpowder (1 charge) -

So a (Nunchaka) does (1d8) regardless if a 8 ST Halfing Fighter uses them or a 16 ST Human Fighter?

[tbeard1999]

Originally Posted by Jim Kane

So a (Nunchaka) does (1d8) regardless if a 8 ST Halfing Fighter uses them or a 16 ST Human Fighter?

Yes, but they do 1d6+1 in regular TFT, regardless of ST. The Blasphemous Polyhedral Weapons Table (BPWT) doesn't change this.

[Chris Rice]

Whilst I'm not entirely against using polyhedrals for weapons, I do have to question some of the values. (I'm assuming you haven't changed the strength requirements.)

Off the top of my head, the battleaxe was 3d6 damage (3-18 range, average 10.5) but with the likely results strongly in the middle of the range (8-13). On your table the damage for the same weapon is 1d20 (1-20 range, average 10.5) but with any result being equally likely. The chance of rolling the top of the range on 3d6 is less than 0.5%. On 1d20 it's 5%, or 10 times more likely.

I don't like that. I find it too extreme and unpredictable for an individual blow.

[tbeard1999]

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

Whilst I'm not entirely against using polyhedrals for weapons, I do have to question some of the values. (I'm assuming you haven't changed the strength requirements.)

Off the top of my head, the battleaxe was 3d6 damage (3-18 range, average 10.5) but with the likely results strongly in the middle of the range (8-13). On your table the damage for the same weapon is 1d20 (1-20 range, average 10.5) but with any result being equally likely. The chance of rolling the top of the range on 3d6 is less than 0.5%. On 1d20 it's 5%, or 10 times more likely.

I don't like that. I find it too extreme and unpredictable for an individual blow.

I calibrated the damage based on the average TFT damage. For instance, a 2d6 broadsword averages 7 points of damage. With a d12, it averages 6.5 points of damage (close enough). ST requirements, cost and weight haven't changed.

Obviously your mileage may vary. However, some TFT weapons use a bell curve for damage; some don't. That has always bugged me (and apparently no one else on the planet).

Also, this table tries to address the problem you noted in another thread - high levels of armor protection. A bell curve will often exacerbate that problem, particularly where the average damage is less than the fixed protection level.

As noted in that thread, a 2d broadsword will damage a figure who stops 9 hits 1/6 of the time. A d12 will damage them 1/4 of the time. That seems to address your complaint, to some extent.

And as noted, you can calibrate the damage to be more or less variable. A d12 can be replaced with 1d10+1. Or 1d8 +2. Or 1d20-4. All average 6.5 points of damage per hit.

You could also decide that hafted weapons (for instance) are more variable than swords. Or vice versa. So a Battleaxe does 1d20, while a Greatsword does 1d12+5 and a 2 handed sword does 1d10+4, for instance.

[JLV]

I have to agree with Chris on this one -- your system may be great, but it eliminates the bell curve, which actually has an effect on the combat system. So, I think his reasoning on this issue is sound. Sorry, buddy, but there it is!

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

Obviously your mileage may vary. However, some TFT weapons use a bell curve for damage; some don't. That has always bugged me (and apparently no one else on the planet).

I noticed. It starts to bug me sometimes, especially when it's something with a high constant such as a fine enchanted small axe doing 1d+7 damage. I'd rather add 2d-7 to all weapons, than make them all flat.

Still polyhedral blasphemy, but perhaps rolling 2 or 3 polyhedrals for every weapon, with an appropriate minus, e.g.:

Rapier 3d6-7
Cutlass 3d8-9
Shortsword 3d10-11
Broadsword 3d12-13
Bastard Sword (1 hand) 3d12-12
Bastard Sword (2 hands)† 3d20-23
2-handed Sword† 3d20-22
Great Sword† 3d20-20

(Though personally, I'm with Rick that 2-handed weapons should do another +1, so I'd have:

Bastard Sword (2 hands)† 3d20-22
2-handed Sword† 3d20-21
Great Sword† 3d20-19
)

However, even I would probably find that notably slower due to the arithmetic, so while I like the numbers better, I probably wouldn't do that outside a computer game - maybe I'm just so used to d6's, but to me 5d-6 for a battleaxe is easy, but 3d20-20 sounds slightly tiresome.

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

Yes, but they do 1d6+1 in regular TFT, regardless of ST. The Blasphemous Polyhedral Weapons Table (BPWT) doesn't change this.

Right, I get that; however, I shall beg the question nonetheless for the purposes of discussion:

"Shouldn't a 16 ST Fighter use a "ST-Appropriate" set of Nunchaku; which would be different than the ST-Minimum example Nunchaku presented on the table which a Halfling might use?" After all, Giants use giant-sized clubs for ST-Appropiate damage - and conceptually, what is a set of Nunchuka after all, other than a flail combined with (albeit) a small club(s)?

[tbeard1999]

Originally Posted by Jim Kane

Right, I get that; however, I shall beg the question nonetheless for the purposes of discussion:

"Shouldn't a 16 ST Fighter use a "ST-Appropriate" set of Nunchaku; which would be different than the ST-Minimum example Nunchaku presented on the table which a Halfling might use?" After all, Giants use giant-sized clubs for ST-Appropiate damage - and conceptually, what is a set of Nunchuka after all, other than a flail combined with (albeit) a small club(s)?

Well, as someone who spent an inordinate amount of time twirling nunchucks in the 80s, I don’t think they’re all that useful. Personally, I’d rather have a club. But, the cinematic nunchucks are something else entirely. That’s why I think that Advanced Melee should identify certain peculiar weapons as “cinematic” - unrealistic, unless your game is set in an appropriate genre. I kinda like the idea of giants with nunchucks though...

I’d add that I’ve allowed a modest damage bonus for having a ST higher than the weapon minimum - +1 per 2 points of ST (or fraction thereof), with a maximum of +2. I also deduct damage if your ST is too low - minus 1 point for each point of ST you lack. You can’t use a weapon if you lack more than 3 points of ST. This is slightly different from AM.

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

Well, as someone who spent an inordinate amount of time twirling nunchucks in the 80s, I don’t think they’re all that useful. Personally, I’d rather have a club. But, the cinematic nunchucks are something else entirely. That’s why I think that Advanced Melee should identify certain peculiar weapons as “cinematic” - unrealistic, unless your game is set in an appropriate genre. I kinda like the idea of giants with nunchucks though...

I’d add that I’ve allowed a modest damage bonus for having a ST higher than the weapon minimum - +1 per 2 points of ST (or fraction thereof), with a maximum of +2. I also deduct damage if yur ST is too low - minus 1 point for each point of ST you lack. You can’t use a weapon if you lack more than 3 points of ST. This is slightly different from AM.

LOL! You too!! Did you have the Enter the Dragon or Game of Death pair with the ball-bearing speed-swivel from Asian World of Martial Arts? ;-)

I get the distinct impression that on-the-whole the TFT combat is supposed to be Cinematic by design. Your thoughts on that?

Yes, I would rather have a Club too,... pretty bartenders,.. good band,.... excellent food,... but, I digress LOL!