Forehead Cuts

[lugaid]

One of the things that boxers and other fighters worry about is a cut above the eyes, since the bleeding can interfere with vision. I can't find any way for this to happen in the Basic Set or Martial Arts, but may have missed something. Is there already a rule that makes this situation possible? If not, what sort of ruling would you make around it, if you were interested in harshly realistic combat?

[DanHoward]

You could rule that a blow to the head that causes a stun can temporarily blind one eye instead.

[kabson]

This could be the explanation for a temporary crippling eye injury.

[aesir23]

An interesting idea. I like it. Not least because I'm a bare-fisted boxing aficionado.

Originally Posted by kabson

This could be the explanation for a temporary crippling eye injury.

The problem with this is that nobody will ever target the eye with a punch in GURPS--too difficult, not enough pay-off.

I'm not sure how to handle it without adding a bunch of unnecessary HT rolls and book-keeping. Perhaps it's just a justification for shock and injury penalties.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by aesir23

An interesting idea. I like it. Not least because I'm a bare-fisted boxing aficionado.

The problem with this is that nobody will ever target the eye with a punch in GURPS--too difficult, not enough pay-off.

Since the vast majority of punches are crushing damage, they won't be targeting the eye directly anyway.

Originally Posted by aesir23

I'm not sure how to handle it without adding a bunch of unnecessary HT rolls and book-keeping. Perhaps it's just a justification for shock and injury penalties.

Yep

You could run something like the the partial injures rules, 2HT x Seconds is probably long enough for blood to start getting into the eyes.

Well unless it a lot of blood from a big wound at which point I think the game effects of the wound itself are likely to cover all this (we did thread on this recently, I suggest running the bleeding rules for attacks that don't penetrate the skull)

Head / skull doesn't actually have any partial injuries rules, which is a bit odd, I guess it less likely to come up but still?

[Varyon]

To make forehead cuts meaningful in a boxing match, you'd have to revamp GURPS damage, honestly. For punches, you're talking a pretty low-probability event, so by the time one is likely to happen, the target is almost certainly unconscious - if not dead - from all those Skull hits. They're more likely with actual crushing weapons, as well as cutting, piercing, and impaling. Offhand, I'd say such a cut would happen something like 1/6 (1 on 1d) of the time from a crushing weapon, 1/3 (1 or 2 on 1d) of the time from a cutting/piercing/impaling weapon, in either case requiring a hit to the Skull from the front that does at least 1 point of damage. This is if the character isn't wearing head armor - if so, you'd might as well ignore it (even if a sharp penetrates the armor, the padding will probably soak up the blood well enough it won't become an issue unless the fight goes on for a long time). I'd say you've got about 1d seconds before the blood reaches your eye, giving you One Eye. Wiping blood from your forehead resets this time; it gives a -1 to most actions (-2 for actions with the wiping hand, which corresponds to a -1 to defend with that hand) on the same round you wiped it away. Once the blood's in your eye, you need a cloth of some sort, then can opt for a Do Nothing to wipe the blood out, but it will come back in 1d seconds, as usual. The wiping hand is unusable and you're at -1 to all defenses until your next turn. You can try to use an uncovered hand (or one covered with soft leather), but this requires a roll against HT to actually clear the eye.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Since the vast majority of punches are crushing damage, they won't be targeting the eye directly anyway.

Now that I think about it, that makes no sense. As of now, I'm house ruling that the eye can be targeted with crushing attacks.

Crushing attacks to the eye: 2 points to cripple the eye (with temporary crippling representing an eye swollen shut.) Any damage beyond that is applied to Face (rather than the brain as in impaling attacks).

Originally Posted by Varyon

For punches, you're talking a pretty low-probability event, so by the time one is likely to happen, the target is almost certainly unconscious - if not dead - from all those Skull hits.

They're low probability with gloves on (not to mention the Vaseline fighters rub on their faces to reduce friction.) Cuts are A LOT more common with bare-knuckles (as can be seen from the early days of UFC) but knockouts are much, much rarer.*

I like the idea that 1 in 6 of crushing attacks to the skull cause bleeding that could leak into the eyes.



*You can't punch someone's head hard enough to give them a concussion without seriously hurting your hand. The majority of bare-knuckle boxing knockouts (from the London Prize-fight days) were from body blows (solar plexus).