[Poll] Mechanical Complexity of Dungeon Fantasy templates

[Jürgen Hubert]

I'm currently on a job hunt. And once I do find a job, I will likely have to find a new city... which means that I will have to find or start a new gaming group. For this reason, I am currently contemplating various campaign ideas to run in a new town, and one intriguing possibility is a West Marches-style Dungeon Fantasy campaign. Basically, the campaign is a hexcrawl/sandbox campaign with a variable pool of players and player characters - each session will be run with whatever players have time.

And in this case, each player would start with one of the Dungeon Fantasy occupational templates, which saves prep time and is a great way of introducing GURPS to new players - or new players to role-playing games.

However (as we found out when creating the Occupational Templates by Genre page at the GURPS Index[/url], the number of occupational templates for GURPS Dungeon Fantasy has become rather... large. And not all templates will be equally suitable for every type of player. While a GURPS veteran won't have a problem with creating a wizard character using the Wizard template, asking this from a new player is a bit much - especially when that player also has to keep track of spell abilities during play.

Hence I would like to poll you on the "mechanical complexity" of the Dungeon Fantasy templates - how much "system mastery" they require to play effectively. Please rate any templates you are familiar with from 1 (least complex) to 5 (most complex). Feel free to leave out any templates you are not familiar with.

Here is the complete list of all 250 point templates:

* Aristocrat (Pyramid 3/64: Pirates and Swashbucklers, p. 4)
* Artificer (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 4: Sages, p. 5)
** Alchemist (Pyramid 3/82: Magical Creations, p. 6)
* Assassin (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 12 - Ninja, p. 9)
* Barbarian (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, pp. 4-5;
* Bard (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 5)
* Beastmaster (Pyramid 3/60: Dungeon Fantasy III, p. 35)
* Buccaneer (Pyramid 3/64: Pirates and Swashbucklers, p. 5)
* Cleric (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 6)
** Evil Cleric (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3: The Next Level, p. 23)
** Saint (Pyramid 3/36: Dungeon Fantasy, p. 10)
** Artificer-Priest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 8)
** City Priest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 12)
** Earth Priest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 15)
** Elder Cleric (Pyramid 3/43: Thaumatology III, p. 11)
** Fire Priest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 16)
** Healing Priest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 21)
** Messenger/Rogue Priest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 22)
** Priest of Death (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 13)
** Priest of the Harvest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 8)
** Priest of the Hunt (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 17)
** Priest of Love (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 19)
** Priest of Night (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 24)
** Priest of Order (Pyramid 3/78: Unleash Your Soul, p. 14)
** Sea Priest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 26)
** Storm Priest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 28)
** Sun Priest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 29)
** War Priest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 30)
* Demolisher (Pyramid 3/36: Dungeon Fantasy, p. 4)
* Demonologist (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners, p. 6)
** Infernal Diabolist (Pyramid 3/50: Dungeon Fantasy II, p. 12)
* Druid (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 7)
** Earth Priest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 15)
** Priest of Chaos (Pyramid 3/78: Unleash Your Soul, p. 16)
** Priest of the Harvest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 8)
** Priest of the Hunt (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 17)
** Sea Priest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 26)
** Storm Priest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 28)
** Elemental Druid (Pyramid 3/68: Natural Magic, p. 29)
** High Druid (Pyramid 3/68: Natural Magic, p. 31)
* Duelist (Pyramid 3/64: Pirates and Swashbucklers, p. 8)
* Echoist (Green-Robe) (GURPS Magic Styles: Dungeon Magic, p. 38)
* Elementalist (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners, p. 9
* Fludist (Blue-Robe) (GURPS Magic Styles: Dungeon Magic, p. 33)
* Holy Warrior (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 7)
** Unholy Warrior (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3: The Next Level, p. 27)
** Warrior Saint (Pyramid 3/36: Dungeon Fantasy, p. 9)
** Artificer Holy Warrior (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 10)
** Chaos Warrior (Pyramid 3/78: Unleash Your Soul, p. 17)
** Elder Warrior (Pyramid 3/43: Thaumatology III, p. 11)
** Holy Hunter (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 18)
** Holy Warrior of Death (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 14)
** Holy Warrior of Earth (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 15)
** Holy Warrior of Fire (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 16)
** Holy Warrior of the Harvest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 8)
** Holy Warrior of Healing (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 21)
** Holy Warrior of Love and Fertility (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 20)
** Holy Warrior of Night (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 24)
** Holy Warrior of Order (Pyramid 3/78: Unleash Your Soul, p. 14)
** Holy Warrior of the Sea (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 26)
** Holy Warrior of the Storm (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 28)
** Holy Warrior of the Sun (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 29)
** Holy Warrior of War (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 31)
** Urban Holy Warrior (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 12)
* Imitator (Pyramid 3/72: Alternate Dungeons, p. 30)
* Innkeeper (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 10 - Taverns, p. 8)
* Iron Mage (Red-Robe) (GURPS Magic Styles: Dungeon Magic, p. 34)
* Justicar (Pyramid 3/10: Crime and Grime, p. 4)
* Knight (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 8)
* Martial Artist (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 9)
* Mentalist (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 14 - Psi, p. 15)
* Mirror-Mage (White-Robe) (GURPS Magic Styles: Dungeon Magic, p. 41)
* Monster Slaver (Pyramid 3/47: The Rogue's Life, p. 20)
** Magical Slaver (Pyramid 3/47: The Rogue's Life, p. 21)
* Musketeer (Pyramid 3/36: Dungeon Fantasy, p. 17)
* Mystic Knight (Pyramid 3/13: Thaumatology, p. 16)
* Necromancer (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners, p. 13)
** Gray Necromancer (Pyramid 3/50: Dungeon Fantasy II, p. 9)
* Ninja (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 12 - Ninja, p. 8)
* Pentaclist (Orange-Robe) (GURPS Magic Styles: Dungeon Magic, p. 40)
* Psychic Slayer (Pyramid 3/76: Dungeon Fantasy IV, p. 4)
* Rage Barbarian (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Barbarians, p. 6)
* Rogue (Pyramid 3/64: Pirates and Swashbucklers, p. 9)
* Savage Warrior (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Barbarians, p. 7)
* Scholar (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 4: Sages, p. 8)
* Scout (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 10)
** Mystic Archer (Pyramid 3/36: Dungeon Fantasy, p. 27)
** Holy Warrior of Messengers and Rogues (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 23)
* Shaman (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners, p. 16)
* Sorcerer (Pyramid 3/82: Magical Creations, p. 9)
* Survivor (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Barbarians, p. 8)
* Swashbuckler (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 11)
** Mystic Swordsman (Pyramid 3/36: Dungeon Fantasy, p. 28)
* Thief (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 12)
* Underworld Mage (Black-Robe) (GURPS Magic Styles: Dungeon Magic, p. 36)
* Thaumateurgeist (Yellow-Robe) (GURPS Magic Styles: Dungeon Magic, p. 37)
* Wizard (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 13)
** Life-Force Wizard (Pyramid 3/68: Natural Magic, p. 33)
* Blob (Pyramid 3/72: Alternate Dungeons, p. 22)
* Dwarf (Pyramid 3/50: Dungeon Fantasy II, p. 4)
* Dragon (Pyramid 3/72: Alternate Dungeons, p. 23)
* Elf (Pyramid 3/50: Dungeon Fantasy II, p. 6)
* Unknowable Thing (Pyramid 3/72: Alternate Dungeons, p. 25)

[dripton]

I'll rate just the few I've actually used.

Knight: 1. It's hard to make a bad Knight, but making a good Knight takes a bit of knowledge about the combat system. (Hint: take Weapon Master.) Playing a knight well requires some tactical skill, but even if you have none and just attack and parry, you'll do okay.

Cleric: 3. You need to understand your spells and your powers. But the cleric spell list is pretty small, and you don't have to worry about prerequisites, so you can pretty much just pick spells at random and do okay, as long as you remember Major Healing. Similarly, the holy ability list is pretty short, and most of them are pretty good, so it's hard to mess up too badly. You need to role-play your disads properly or your GM can take away all your powers.

Wizard: 5. Building an effective wizard requires knowing a good chunk of Magic, since there are so many options, and many of them aren't as good as they look. Some of the spells are much better than others, and some synergy is required between your choices to avoid wasting too many points on prerequisites that you won't actually cast much. You're squishy, and enemies that will challenge the Knight will wreck you, so you need to be evasive in combat. Your ludicrously high IQ makes you good at many things, so you need to be involved all the time. (Except, sadly, in combat, where your best move is often to cast Great Haste on the most effective fighter(s), then evade.)

Scout: 2. Pile on all the archer advantages and shoot things with arrows. Preferably in the eye. You need to learn the speed/range table and maneuver to keep yourself close enough to enemies that you can easily hit them but far enough from enemies that they can't hit you. Otherwise a pretty straightforward role. Actually scouting ahead requires good use of Stealth and the wisdom to go back for reinforcements rather than attempting to solo pincushion all the enemies.

Barbarian: 1. Like the Knight with less armor and some outdoorsy skills. Not very hard to play, unless you take Berserk, in which case you will die.

Thief: 2. You have a lot of skills. Including stuff like Filch that you probably won't use. Not the strongest template because of the way the skills are split between IQ and DX. But pretty straightforward to play. If in doubt, search for traps.

Mystic Knight: 3. You need to know the Imbuement rules cold, because nobody else does, probably including your GM.

Mystic Archer: 4. See Scout and Mystic Knight.

Swashbuckler: 1. Like the Knight except a lot of the good stuff (Weapon Master, Weapon Bond, Luck) is required in the template so you can't forget to take it, and you don't have as much armor so you need to be more careful about not missing defense rolls. (Save your Luck.) And your default ST is poor, but that can be fixed.

[Rasputin]

I'll rate the ones I've seen in play or used, including the 125-point versions.

Barbarian: pretty easy. It has two big jobs—hitting and wildernessing—and it does both well and without hassle.

Cleric: if you stick to spells, this isn't tough.

Scout: it's like the barbarian, only with a bow.

Swashbuckler: surprisingly complex. With low ST, it needs someone who knows GURPS combat options well to do damage. The barbarian doesn't need real system knowledge, the knight doesn't need it as much.

Thief: as always, thieves are weak, and here we can't blame the d4 hit die. Don't take a thief if you want to fight, as it's like a swashbuckler with lower skill.

Wizard: varies with spell list. Blaster wizards are easy, others can be a pain. New players have trouble picking spells.

[evileeyore]

I know your not seeking advice, but I'm a gonna be one those types anyway:

Stick with the 'core' templates in DF1 for the game start. Those classes are all pretty straight forward and hard to mess up*. Most of the templates I've looked over in the Pyramids seem a bit more complicated, and the ones in further DF supplements certainly are.



* Baring Martial Artist, Swashbuckler, and Thief. While it's hard to 'mess them up' if you follow the template they each require a bit of rule's system savy to them. The Thief is not a front or second line fighter in any shape, which will come as a surprise to people used to D&D. The Martial Artist and the Swashbuckler have big strengths and big weaknesses, which a rules proficient Player can capitalize on and better avoid the pitfalls of.

[Kuroshima]

Hello Jurgen, let me comment on the templates as I've seen them in my game

* Aristocrat (Pyramid 3/64: Pirates and Swashbucklers, p. 4)

It's a mix of knight and swashbuckler, and can be played as either

* Artificer (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 4: Sages, p. 5)

Really depends on player inventiveness and GM's willingness to play along. Really rewards lateral thinking and being able to tackle stuff unconventionally. The problem is that this template is often worse at combat than the thief, but better or equal at the "thief skills" (save, maybe, for Stealth). Still, any player that picks this template doesn't expect it to be a combat powerhouse, so it won't cause an issue when the character is weak in combat.

** Alchemist (Pyramid 3/82: Magical Creations, p. 6)

I played a homebrew version of this in my game, and unlike the artificer, this one has clearer, less wildly open options. Being able to provide healing via potions, and lots of potential buffs, makes for a very interesting support character.

* Assassin (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 12 - Ninja, p. 9)

A decent combatant with stealth skills, not too complicated. Will not cover all the "thief skills" bases, but will better match expectations.

* Barbarian (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, pp. 4-5;

A guy focused on physical challenges and wilderness stuff. Not really a top noch combatant. The options in Dungeon Denizens: Barbarians, however, change this.

* Bard (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 5)

Does two things only, but does them well. One if handling social stuff, the other is providing powerful crowd control via bard songs like the extremely powerful Siren Song. Using bard songs for buffs is also an option. A spell-less variant is possible, and quite decent, since most spells will be more of a distraction on your role than a real option.

* Cleric (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 6)

Your in-combat role is buffing prior to combat, and providing emergency heals. Has a lot of extremely powerful spells (Bless, Sanctuary, etc...) that are either unavailable to Wizards or have very punishing prerequisite chains.

** Evil Cleric (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3: The Next Level, p. 23)

Doesn't offer anything that a wizard could not reach eventually, but gets access to the spells faster since he ignores prerequisites. Has most of the issues Wizards have, in combat, but lacks the broad utility of having access to most spells.

** Saint (Pyramid 3/36: Dungeon Fantasy, p. 10)

Sacrifices a lot of buffing potential from the cleric for actual combat usable abilities. General prayers require a lot of GM interpretation, but are wonderful problem solvers. Very simple for new players, in that they don't have large lists of spells to remember, just a few signature abilities, and an awesome open ended power.

** Messenger/Rogue Priest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 22)

Plays mostly like the cleric, but has access to Blink and Great Haste, extremely awesome spells, both of them. Loses other general utility spells

** Sun Priest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 29)

Basically a standard priest, with some required spells. No great changes to the spell list, nor to holy might abilities. The required sun bolt is a trap, you've got better things to do with your FP and turns in combat

* Demonologist (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners, p. 6)

The spell list is terribly focused, but includes some gems like curse, phase and phase other. Baseline demons aren't that great, but if the GM allows customization and variations, specially when earned points require adding abilities to the demon, they can work great.

* Druid (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 7)

The spell list isn't bad, though it isn't great either. Has awesome utility for wilderness adventures, but loses much in actual dungeons, and that's before you count that Nature's Strength will make you feel weak more often than not.

** Priest of the Harvest (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 8)
** Priest of the Hunt (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics, p. 17)

Not that awesome for priests, but a way to play druids that both heal and don't depend on Nature's Strength, that can be extremely punishing.

* Holy Warrior (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 7)

Somewhat second line combatant that can nova well with Higher Purpose. Always felt unsatisfying to me.

** Warrior Saint (Pyramid 3/36: Dungeon Fantasy, p. 9)

Divine Favor is a last ditch option, learned prayers is where the fun is. Needs careful selection of prayers (make sure the characters read the advice found in the Niche Protection box of Saintly Power-Ups, Pyramid #3/50: Dungeon Fantasy II, p. 17)

* Knight (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 8)

It's hard to make a bad knight, but it takes some thought to make a great one. Very newbie friendly though.

* Martial Artist (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 9)

A decent template, but somehow counter-intuitive. Unarmed combat is not a decent option until you can get power-ups like seven secret kicks or unarmed master. Until you do, you're better with a bladed hand (you'll outgrow it, since it has only 18 max ST). Cinematic skills are problematic until you've gotten a few bonus points and raised them a bit.

* Mystic Knight (Pyramid 3/13: Thaumatology, p. 16)

Requires a decent amount of system mastery on the Imbuement mechanics, and unless you've got it, it can make combat drag out a lot. There are few bad choices here.

* Scout (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 10)

Extremely awesome against creatures with vitals and brains, will have issues with unliving and homogeneous targets. Cutting arrows are a must. Decent wilderness skills.

** Mystic Archer (Pyramid 3/36: Dungeon Fantasy, p. 27)

Requires the same system mastery of the imbuement rules as the Mystic Knight, and trades the wilderness utility of the scout for awesome imbuement tricks.

* Sorcerer (Pyramid 3/82: Magical Creations, p. 9)

Somewhat hampered by the lack of published Sorcery spells, if the GM is willing to work with the player on building more spells, or the player is content to play a fire mage with some extra out of school additions, it provides a very satisfying "spellcaster" that plays well in combat. Can deal "magic" damage very well, and most people will expect that out of spellcasters.

* Swashbuckler (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 11)

With an edged rapier, and (Striking) ST 13, they're combat monsters, even more fearsome than the knight. Unlike the knight, they aren't likely to have decent armor, so they're glass cannons, but their parries and dodges are top notch. Since they don't waste points into non-combat skills (unlike the knight, that gets born war leader and associated skills), they're extremely easy to optimize.

* Thief (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 12)

A thief's place is not in combat, it's recon and handling traps. Trying to make a combat thief is an exercise of futility that will end in disappointment. Recon can be handled by the Scout, and traps by the artificer, and both templates probably offer a more fulfilling game experience. "Combat worthy" thieves are actually swashbucklers, rogues or assassins.

* Wizard (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, p. 13)

Very tricky to build, need deep knowledge of the quirks of the magic system. Combat roles are either buffing (mostly pre-combat, but an in combat great haste is awesome, and they can pull the skill to get it out in reasonable time), or using save or suck spells, (Mental Stun, Stun, Glue, Stench, Concussion, Stone to Flesh, Fumble, etc). Damaging spells are not recommended (the sorcerer is the answer for those wanting to deal damage with magic).

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Very tricky to build, need deep knowledge of the quirks of the magic system. Combat roles are either buffing (mostly pre-combat, but an in combat great haste is awesome, and they can pull the skill to get it out in reasonable time), or using save or suck spells, (Mental Stun, Stun, Glue, Stench, Concussion, Stone to Flesh, Fumble, etc). Damaging spells are not recommended (the sorcerer is the answer for those wanting to deal damage with magic).

I disagree. The Wizzie in my current game is out the gate dropping 2d missile spells freely and looking at 3d in a few game sessions.


Granted they'll plateau there for a good long while (they don't have to, but it's a bit expensive to get to 4d and there are more 'point efficient' but slower ways than dumping 20 points into one skill).

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

I disagree. The Wizzie in my current game is out the gate dropping 2d missile spells freely and looking at 3d in a few game sessions.

Sounds like the yellow robe in my game, albeit at a lower point total. It isn't tough to get a wizard lobbing 3d Blast Balls every few seconds.

[Kalzazz]

Kuroshima - you have any Mystic Swordsman thoughts?

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

I disagree. The Wizzie in my current game is out the gate dropping 2d missile spells freely and looking at 3d in a few game sessions.


Granted they'll plateau there for a good long while (they don't have to, but it's a bit expensive to get to 4d and there are more 'point efficient' but slower ways than dumping 20 points into one skill).

2d every 2 rounds (I know you can houserule the need for the attack maneuver after the concentrate maneuver, but I'm talking RAW), with mediocre skill that is affected by range penalties (by default, the wizard has Innate Attack at 14, if he picks up the skill instead of any other ranged weapon option) at some FP cost (unless he has enough skill to reach the next milestone, that is, skill 20) is not decent damage. A knight with ST 14, a sword, and no weapon master will be doing more damage each swing at no FP cost, and he could do so twice a turn with rapid strike, or thrice a turn with rapid strike and extra attack. A scout will throw 1d+2(2) pi arrows every turn with greater accuracy, and probably shoot 2 arrows each time.

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Sounds like the yellow robe in my game, albeit at a lower point total. It isn't tough to get a wizard lobbing 3d Blast Balls every few seconds.

And it's not not hard to have any combat worthy delver to toss around that much damage every turn.

The reason I don't recommend damage spells for wizards is simple, others do damage much better than you, at lesser costs. The usual outcome of a wizard spending a turn creating a missile spell, and then another turn throwing it is a miss or a dodge. Now the wizard is out of som FPs, while the target is unscathed. Psychic Guidance can help with the accuracy, but nothing short of compartmentalized mind will help you deal with the fact that you need to spend a turn creating the missile, and another throwing it (or casting the melee spell, and attacking with it)
There are damage spells that go around this, by using the resistance mechanic (Dehydrate and frostbyte are some examples of this), but by default, they still cost several turns worth of casting (but fortunately, you can reduce this with high skill, unlike missile, melee and jet spells), and anyway they require 1 FP per dice of damage and a resistance roll. For less FP, less turns, and the same resistance roll, you could have use Stun, and had one of the wizard's muscle bound friends deal the damage much more easily (thanks to the -4 to defenses and the inability to retreat from being stunned).

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Kuroshima - you have any Mystic Swordsman thoughts?

I never had them in my table. True, one of the characters is a mystic knight-aristocrat (that is somehow like the swashbuckler), but he uses heavy armor and wields a two handed sword, nothing like the intended agile fighter with light weapon and imbuements. I would guess that the mystic swashbuckler would do well, BUT it needs an edged rapier or other swing capable weapon, and desperately needs more ST (not that the normal swashbuckler shouldn't aim for starting ST+striking ST=13). Imbuements are a force multiplier for ST damage, meaning that unless your ST damage is decent to high, they're not that cost effective. Also, unlike the mystic scout, who only cares on imbuing arrows with no concern for defensive imbuements, the mystic swashbuckler is going to be in the front line, and might use a buckler, so armor and shield imbuements still have value and they can't use them.

[Dammann]

These are the templates I have looked at the hardest, listed with my numerical complexity rating. I guess it is debatable what to rate the templates, but I tend to increase the number with a more complex (gadgeteer/Imbuement/powers) or even just more verbose system (Magic) that the player needs to handle. I rate Imbuement templates higher because there are so many times that I've seen a Mystic something-or-other roll four or more times for an attack roll.

* Aristocrat 2
* Artificer 4
** Alchemist 4
* Assassin 2
* Barbarian 1
* Bard 3
* Beastmaster 3
* Buccaneer 2
* Cleric 3
** Evil Cleric 3
** Saint 3
* Demolisher 2
* Demonologist 4
** Infernal Diabolist 4
* Druid 3
* Duelist 2
* Holy Warrior 2
** Unholy Warrior 2
** Warrior Saint 3
* Innkeeper 1
* Justicar 1
* Knight 1
* Martial Artist 2
* Mentalist 3
* Mystic Knight 5
* Necromancer 4
** Gray Necromancer 4
* Ninja 2
* Scout 2
** Mystic Archer 5
* Shaman 3
* Sorcerer 4
* Swashbuckler 2
* Thief 2
* Wizard 5
* Dwarf 2
* Elf 3