[RPM] Shrinking a Planet?

[Snaps]

So the question came up in our game how much it would cost to shrink something using RPM. The question turned a little silly when we started to wonder how much it would be to shrink an entire planet.

I did a little math and it seems that the answer is not much at all.

Am I wrong that with a single Greater Transform Matter effect, you could shrink the earth down to nothing for less than 200 energy?

I'm figuring this out as:

Greater Transform Matter (8) + Weight (6,500 quintillion tons, 50 energy) = 174 energy.

Now you could argue that you need an altered trait in there, but size reduction is usually a 0 point feature. You could argue that you'd need 50 levels of Shrinking to pull this off, but even then you're not increasing the cost that much, and it still doesn't change the fact that you can turn the earth into a donut or salt, etc. for cheap.

I might be a little off on my math, but I don't think so, and it shouldn't be more than a few points off.

What have I missed, or is it really this easy?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Remember it gets to resist with its HT+SM...so...good luck (see Afflictions and Inanimate Objects, GURPS Powers, p. 40))

Edit: I talk about this a bit on my blog.

[Anthony]

You want to add shrinking unless it still retains its original hit points, DR, etc. However, if you have a skill of 90 or so, go for it.

[Kalzazz]

Curses! I actually ran an adventure in the past based on 'its pretty easy to scale things to the insane', a group of evil cultists was using a Lost Page from Apicius to cast a spell to turn the Earth's oceans into Lemon Chicken Orzo soup in order to attract the Snacker Upon Planets

Oopsie. Oh well, the PCs stopped them before they actually cast the spell

It would have been funny to have them successfully cast the spell and the planet laughs it off

As a note, Technomancer gives good explanations for why 'you cannot have mages ruin everything with whackiness'

'I mind control the president! Whats his Resist?'

'How many states are in the Union?'

[Shieldbunny]

First, you really need to put some duration on that thing. Otherwise you get a shrunken planet for about a second.

Second, what happens to the animals and people on this shrunken planet? Do they shrink as inventory, or do they fly off into the void.

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Curses! I actually ran an adventure in the past based on 'its pretty easy to scale things to the insane', a group of evil cultists was using a Lost Page from Apicius to cast a spell to turn the Earth's oceans into Lemon Chicken Orzo soup in order to attract the Snacker Upon Planets

Oopsie. Oh well, the PCs stopped them before they actually cast the spell

It would have been funny to have them successfully cast the spell and the planet laughs it off

As a note, Technomancer gives good explanations for why 'you cannot have mages ruin everything with whackiness'

'I mind control the president! Whats his Resist?'

'How many states are in the Union?'

Well we never really studied the spell, it might have added stock to the world (and creating stock would side resistance) or the spell could have had (reduced resistance 35) as part of it.


As for Snap's posts

Originally Posted by Snaps

The problem is it's not just that. The Rules are Broken. End of Story.

Now, a GM can just arbitrarily veto certain things, ban others, and contradict the rules on the fly, of course. He'll have to.

What bugs me is that every time the rules break down, it's always because of a multiplier. Every time.

Honestly, that optional rule does very little to reign it in. Let's look at a few things you can do for under 200 energy.

1.-Create a Fire the size of the earth that lasts all day.
2.-Turn off all electricity on Earth (Revolution!)
3.-Very easily create a planet...
4.-Produce enough food to feed the world
5.-Make everyone on Earth +30% smarter, or stronger, healthier, etc.
6.-Or start a zombie apocalypse by raising every corpse on earth into a zombie or skeleton...

1. So long as the fire does no damage to people, places, or objects, sure. Once the spell is doing direct damage you need to add damage to it. Now being able to create an artificial sun is impressive, but for arcmage levels of sorcery you should be able to do some neat effects.
2. See the previous point about resistances for large objects. Or if you are just effecting a group its 'take the highest resistance in the group and then add +1 per additional member' With the fact that tek savvy individuals generally carry 5 electronic devices on their person that's going to be a VERY large resistance roll.
3. Arcmage level magery, creating new worlds (so long as they aren't causing direct damage to the existing world)- check, cool stuff that RPM arcmages get to do with magic. Of course that's going to be a temporary world (even if the duration is very long) and could be popped by a simple dispel or introduction of a no manna zone.
4. Created food with RPM has to have a very long duration, or else it will vanish inside the person when the spell expires. I think there's a threat out there about killing someone in secret by replacing all of there food with RPM created food for years and then ending the spell at once
5. Cool things for arcmages to do that are temporary and prone to be randomly ended once again.
6. Somehow nowhere on this earth has scrywalls, or protected zones, corpses are not either given 'lay to rest' to prevent this exact sort of maleficence or else have already been picked at by other necromancers, there's no other arcmage lounging around who will say 'huh- nope' and counterspell it? There's still likely some resistance roll in there somewhere, and its going to stack up as you try effecting EVERYTHING.

When RPM exists it does not exist in a vacuum, and the world will be different as a result, but it need not seem that way on the outside. There will be casters on all angles working against one another, and big effects will tend to be muted by counter-effects. Kal had an excellent example there- where an RPM caster did a BIG effect that went wrong, then made it worse, then finally 'cleaned it up' by flooding the city. Grand scheme next day weather report 'record rainstorm floods city streets'. Had Luna not cleaned up her own mess some other caster would have, or a super, or a time-spanning psycic would have mind controlled Luna to not cast the first spell initially. The plasticity of the game world for PCs/Players to influence it only goes so far, the world will resist/undo there actions, and to do otherwise would be unrealistic.


Now this is not to say that there is not some room for very large effects, but they generally require a prodigious amount of energy. The issue is, if morals do not factor into it, prodigious energy is a surmountable problem.

One thing that our gaming group uses (which I initiated when I realized the potential for 'evil cult with dozens of willing sacrifice participants' to put together big spells) is that spells that are 'big enough' create ripples that stretch backwards in time- giving advance warning that they are going to take place. Thus any sort of 'release the manna-eater demon from its eternal prison' type spells are detected a few weeks before the cult that is going to cast it actually gets together and starts cutting- which then turns into a nice quest for a group of adventurers to break that up before it happens.

[Kalzazz]

So it could have been 'Greater Create Bouillion'!

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Remember it gets to resist with its HT+SM...so...good luck (see Afflictions and Inanimate Objects, GURPS Powers, p. 40))

Edit: I talk about this a bit on my blog.

That rule is optional, though. I'd still recommend it for this kind of spell...

[Christopher R. Rice]

I recommend it for RPM period.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

That rule is optional, though. I'd still recommend it for this kind of spell...

Failure to use an obviously relevant optional rule results in the world being destroyed by someone who wasn't capable enough to be able to realistically achieve that goal.

Well... It looks like a no-brainer to me...