Reddit: why do people seem to not like GURPS?

[JMD]

I thought people might want to jump into this thread I started on why people don't seem to like GURPS. Everytime I bring up GURPS on r/rpg I end up swimming through a vast ocean of negativity and hate.

Help me explain to them why GURPS is awesome!

[Gold & Appel Inc]

I tried reading through that thread, but it just depressed me. Give up and move to Denver; our GURPS scene is the best I know of anywhere and we've had about 5% of the snow that you have so far this year.

[Nymdok]

I read the thread and didnt find it to be depressing at all.

It does highlight a few marketing issues though.

The idea that the system is 'broken' because its cheaper to buy up stats than skills. One guy even mentions 1/2 points (which must be a 3e thing). Although this can be true for uber generalists, the default penalties for skills that have defaults make this largely untrue.

There were some complaints about supers. I havent run a supers game, so I cant speak to those, but those on here seem to like it just fine which indicates to me that its just not their cuppa. Its hard ot sell to people who simply dont want your stuff.

There were other people that said that other systems were more tailored to specific genres and adventure types. Others still said they LIKE learning a new system for each Genre. Put simply, we just aint them people, and by extension, this sytem aint for them. We're here because we like having one system to rule them all.

There are a lot of complaints about Settings. Apparently, Banestorm, Vorkosigan, Transhuman space, Infintie Worlds etc just dont appeal to them and they are looking for something a little more familiar(?). Sadly, I dont even know if they really understand what they want, nor do they understand that a do it yourself fantasy world isn't really that hard to put together, even less so if you're doing DF.

The complaint that SJGames is 90% Munchkin appears to imply that GURPS isnt getting enough support. Looking at the existing library, I just dont think thats true. There already exists for GURPS an EXTENSIVE amount of support and thats before we even begin to discuss Pyramid.

Geeze the guys with the Math complaint. GURPS is just not this complicated. Have they even seen 4th edition? Played it?

Honestly, these are the same complaints Ive been seeing about GURPS forever. Its an education thing. The MIBs go to the conventions. These forums are here. Im sure there is other marketing done. Its just an issue of evangelizing.

I do think its neat you taking the time to educate them and at least getting the dialog going over there on Reddit. Hopefully you'll win some converts :)

Nymdok
I asked really nice
Yeah I said pretty please
I bent all their ears
Now Ill work on their knees!
-Lord Torquemada History of the World Part 1

[Kalzazz]

I think the biggest problem is there might not be anything 'this is super awesome, do this, it is GURPS!' that really stands out as 'the really awesome thing to do, do this!'

To many DMs just have people go play 'hey, your normal humans, elves, dwarves whatnot with swords and spells and such' and people are like 'and this is better how than the twenty different systems I already know and have books for and handle normal humans with swords perfectly well thank you?'

Any system under the sun can handle 'heres a human, he has a sword'

[Propjock]

I play other stuff besides GURPS. However, after some time I always find myself realizing the reverse of "dedicated system does this setting best" and think "GURPS can do this better".

In looking at the posts here and knowing my own preferences, I think GURPS is favoured by people who want to do games that mess with history and have a strong DIY inclination. It really is the SDK of RPGs. That's not for everyone (just as not everyone is a programmer).

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by Nymdok

Geeze the guys with the Math complaint. GURPS is just not this complicated. Have they even seen 4th edition? Played it?

Slam rules, falling rules, and throwing rules (aside from the thrown weapon table) all stand out to me as more math than I care to look up in a single game.

[Kalzazz]

I am a Programmer

I am certainly not wanting to do Programming to play an RPG

GURPS vastly simplifies things as a DM

1. GURPS can stat anything, its just a matter of points
2. NPCs need not points
thus 3
3. NPCs need not stats, because yes, whatever they are, they are valid in GURPS

I dont need to stat out and build the encounter I'm going to run in order to figure out its CR value to give PCs experience, nothing needs to be statted, everything can be done off the cuff

Since I don't need to worry about statting stuff, I don't even need to worry about stats until I need them, so I don't run the overhead of thinking about stats I will never need! Until the PCs actually throw down with the orks I don't care or know what their init or ST or skill or whatnot is, unless the party investigates it or such

[scc]

GURPS 4E isn't getting as much support as it used to, or at least as much as was originally planed, this is from my copy of Characters, page 6: "• Regular support will continue. We plan to release one high-quality hardcover sourcebook every month . . . indefinitely. As I write this in April of 2004, we’re already scheduled more than three years out."

Of course the conditions that lead to the writing of that statement have likely changed

[doulos05]

The problem is that people buy GURPS expecting to get a game and they get a toolkit. A toolkit that has dozens of extra pieces that they'll never need for any game in any of the genres they are interested in playing. It's a bit like peopleing going to buy a computer, seeing a super-cheap option called "Barebones PC" and buying it. Then when it comes, they go, "WTH are all these circuit boards?"

Now, that's partially their fault because they should have read the label (definitely so in the case of a barebones PC), but then again, I'm not sure the GURPS label makes it clear that it comes "Lots of assembly required."

[2097]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

GURPS vastly simplifies things as a DM

1. GURPS can stat anything, its just a matter of points
2. NPCs need not points
thus 3
3. NPCs need not stats, because yes, whatever they are, they are valid in GURPS

I dont need to stat out and build the encounter I'm going to run in order to figure out its CR value to give PCs experience, nothing needs to be statted, everything can be done off the cuff

Since I don't need to worry about statting stuff, I don't even need to worry about stats until I need them, so I don't run the overhead of thinking about stats I will never need! Until the PCs actually throw down with the orks I don't care or know what their init or ST or skill or whatnot is, unless the party investigates it or such

This is part of why character points are meaningless for players also.
I spend hours (if I'm a new player) looking through the templates, looking up the information on various skills and advantages and limitations.
I finally make the character and land on say a "Baking 14". Later, I find some orcs and we end up in a bake-off contest. The GM assigns on the cuff that they have Baking 17. Or Baking 10, or whatever. Ugh. Why did I even bother spending so much time making the character.