Martial arts for and against Neanderthals

[Dangerious P. Cats]

In a world where Neanderthals still existed, at least as far as the middle ages (so about TL3), and fought with modern humans how would both the humans and Neanderthal martial arts be affected?

[ericthered]

Unarmed or Armed? we call both Martial arts around here.

Honestly, only if you need flavor. The two species (or not, interbreeding may have occurred) are so similar it shouldn't effect combat much.

But if you want to have differences, go for it!

[Dangerious P. Cats]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Unarmed or Armed? we call both Martial arts around here.

Honestly, only if you need flavor. The two species (or not, interbreeding may have occurred) are so similar it shouldn't effect combat much.

But if you want to have differences, go for it!

I'm going with both. When you get to the middle ages there's not the same division that you get with modern martial arts.

[ericthered]

And what is the difference between the two in this setting? the exact differences have so much wiggle room it can be hard to say. Are these hulking brutes that are dumber than Cro-mangons, or do they mostly have a thicker face and perhaps heavier musculature?

[gilbertocarlos]

Assuming Neanderthals are tougher and stronger, but a little dumber:
The biggest difference would be that Neanderthals would have a higher ratio on the warrior class.
The higher ST would make it a little easier against armor, but, since they also wear armor, it would cancel it. However, humans would have a slighter higher incentive to use two handed/heavier weapons.
Neanderthals being adapted to cold, would only live in the north, everywhere else they would be very rare, and normal history would progress normally. They wouldn't be considered a different race, only as tough guys/gals.


Of course, we're ignoring interracial breeding, with is what happened and would happen if they still existed.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by gilbertocarlos

Assuming Neanderthals are tougher and stronger, but a little dumber:
The biggest difference would be that Neanderthals would have a higher ratio on the warrior class.
The higher ST would make it a little easier against armor, but, since they also wear armor, it would cancel it. However, humans would have a slighter higher incentive to use two handed/heavier weapons.
Neanderthals being adapted to cold, would only live in the north, everywhere else they would be very rare, and normal history would progress normally. They wouldn't be considered a different race, only as tough guys/gals.


Of course, we're ignoring interracial breeding, with is what happened and would happen if they still existed.

Well, they lived in the Near East and Mesopotamia, too.

Maybe there are Neanderthal hillmen in the Zagros and Taurus Mountains of the OP's setting?

I like the idea of the Neanderthals being seen as 'tough guys.'

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats

In a world where Neanderthals still existed, at least as far as the middle ages (so about TL3), and fought with modern humans how would both the humans and Neanderthal martial arts be affected?

(Assuming superior ST, especially upper body ST, and equal TL on the Neanderthal side)

Neanderthal vs Neanderthal Styles: Neanderthals who are trained to primarily fight other Neanderthals are mainly going to be concerned with the absurdly heavy armor their kin are able to move around in. Targeted Attacks to areas that are difficult, expensive, or otherwise unpopular to armor heavily (eg: the Neck) are probably emphasized, as are Wrestling moves that allow immobilizing or injuring a high-DR target.

Neanderthal vs Human Styles: Armed: No Change from Human vs Human. The Sling and Atl-Atl are probably popular. Unarmed: Those skinny little bastards are quick, but once you put hands on them, they're finished. Pick a Grappling Skill (Wrestling is probably best, but I'd be tempted to use Sumo here) and go to town on it, ideally until Deceptive Attacks good enough to avoid weapon parries are possible.

Human vs Human Styles: No Effect.

Human vs Neanderthal Styles: Emphasis on keeping a stronger opponent off-balance and not getting hit or caught. Judo is probably a primary skill, with improved Evade and Enhanced Defenses as options. Rapid Retraction Perks are a good idea. Any weapons are probably two-handed and built for penetration like the stuff you start seeing more around TL 4, but used conservatively for Feints and Defensive Attacks until there's a good opening.

[Flyndaran]

Male neanderthals were around 5'3". Most humans are intimidated more by height than strength. But I guess the lower center of balance might help in real life if below Gurps granularity.

[Figleaf23]

I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of a Neanderthal martial art at their prehistoric tech level.

I'm thinking it would evolve from their hunting practices, in particular, taking large game.

Core Skills: Spear, Brawling, Tracking, Running, [Edit: Questionable - Spear Throwing]

Techniques:

Attack from Above
Breakfall^
Evade^
Trip^
Sweep (Spear or Brawling)
Tartgetted Attack: (Spear Thrust/Neck-Veins)
Close Combat (Spear)
Eye Gouging (Brawling)
Flying Lunge

Perks:
Grip Mastery (Spear)
Skill Adaptation (Listed wrestling techniques^ default from Brawling)
Teamwork

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of a Neanderthal martial art at their prehistoric tech level.

Aren't Martial Arts themselves TL2 or so? I don't think you really have formal styles before that. I suppose you could have TL0^ or TL0+2 Martial Arts.