Building a mythic hero

[Anders]

This was an interesting page.

The mythical pattern of a hero

1. Hero's mother is a royal virgin;
2. His father is a king, and
3. Often a near relative of his mother, but
4. The circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
5. He is also reputed to be the son of a god.
6. At birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or his maternal grand father to kill him, but
7. he is spirited away, and
8. Reared by foster -parents in a far country.
9. We are told nothing of his childhood, but
10. On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future Kingdom.
11. After a victory over the king and/or a giant, dragon, or wild beast,
12. He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor and
13. And becomes king.
14. For a time he reigns uneventfully and
15. Prescribes laws, but
16. Later he loses favor with the gods and/or his subjects, and
17. Is driven from the throne and city, after which
18. He meets with a mysterious death,
19. Often at the top of a hill,
20. His children, if any do not succeed him.
21. His body is not buried, but nevertheless
22. He has one or more holy sepulchres.

[Anaraxes]

Logically, 14..22 would outline the plot for Star Wars eps 7..9 -- but Hollywood would never go for such a downer. On the other hand, it would make it a nice cycle for ascendancy switching from Light Side to Dark and back.

[vicky_molokh]

Hmm, let's check with the Ur-example of heroes, Gilgamesh.

1. Hero's mother is a royal virgin - not that I heard of.
2. His father is a king - apparently.
3. Often a near relative of his mother - no idea, probably not.
4. The circumstances of his conception are unusual - 33%/33%/33% mix sure is unusual.
5. He is also reputed to be the son of a god - yes.
6. At birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or his maternal grand father to kill him - not that I know of.
7. he is spirited away - apparently not.
8. Reared by foster -parents in a far country - apparently not.
9. We are told nothing of his childhood - seems so.
10. On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future Kingdom - sort of.
11. After a victory over the king and/or a giant, dragon, or wild beast - okay, there was a victory over a wild person; does it count?
12. He marries a princess - this is Gilgamesh, so apparently not.
13. And becomes king - stays king, basically.
14. For a time he reigns uneventfully - sort of.
15. Prescribes laws, but - maybe.
16. Later he loses favor with the gods and/or his subjects - probably counts.
17. Is driven from the throne and city, after which - does a quest count as driven out?
18. He meets with a mysterious death - I suppose you can say that.
19. Often at the top of a hill - wasn't it a shore?
20. His children, if any do not succeed him - I'm not sure we can know.
21. His body is not buried, but nevertheless - taken to be king of the Netherworld with the body?
22. He has one or more holy sepulchres - no idea.

[Anthony]

There's some fairly forced logic there. Consider:
5. He is also reputed to be the son of a god.
Now, for Arthur Pendragon:
(5) reputed to be the son of Uther Pendragon,
and the author says that Arthur matches qualification 5....

[Anaraxes]

I wouldn't expect all heroes to have to match every point. That's carrying things a bit too far, putting the form over the substance.

On the other hand, the fact that there are variations and deviations doesn't invalidate the observation that there's a common pattern to a lot of mythical stories. It might be more interesting, academically, to study the differences rather than try to force-fit every story to the master pattern.

[combatmedic]

Yeah, I don't think King Arthur qualifies on # 5.

And Jesus? The author also messed that up. God isn't a 'close relative' of the Virgin Mary.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Yeah, I don't think King Arthur qualifies on # 5.

And Jesus? The author also messed that up. God isn't a 'close relative' of the Virgin Mary.

Oh, that's not what he's saying (he's saying Joseph is a close relative of Mary), though he's still wrong. Let's look at his list:
1. mother is a royal virgin -- not even close to true, I don't think we have a geneology for Mary (as opposed to Joseph, for whom we have two contradictory ones), and in any case, 42 generations later != royal virgin
2. father is a king -- we have a geneology of Joseph, and see 42 generations.
3. near relative of his mother -- no evidence for this being true.
4. The circumstances of his conception are unusual -- I'll grant this one.
5. He is also reputed to be the son of a god -- this one too.
6. At birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or his maternal grand father to kill him -- partially true
7. he is spirited away -- sure, we'll accept that one.
9. We are told nothing of his childhood -- valid.
10. On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future Kingdom -- he never becomes a king, but this is close enough.
14. For a time he reigns uneventfully -- teaching and reigning are not the same.
15. Prescribes laws -- iffy, there's no ten commandments equivalent.
16. Later he loses favor with the gods and/or his subjects -- I guess I can grant this, based on Judas
18. He meets with a mysterious death -- crucifixion isn't particularly mysterious.
19. Often at the top of a hill -- well, sure, but not very meaningful.
20. His children, if any do not succeed him -- granted
21. His body is not buried, but nevertheless -- well, he was entombed, but it was temporary, so we'll grant this one.
22. He has one or more holy sepulchres -- the sepulchre was built centuries after the relevant books were written; I'm not going to count 'building a shrine' unless it occurs as part of the myth.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

I wouldn't expect all heroes to have to match every point. That's carrying things a bit too far, putting the form over the substance.

On the other hand, the fact that there are variations and deviations doesn't invalidate the observation that there's a common pattern to a lot of mythical stories. It might be more interesting, academically, to study the differences rather than try to force-fit every story to the master pattern.

Joseph Campbell wrote about this extensively in THE HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES and THE MASKS OF GOD, and before him James Frazer in THE GOLDEN BOUGH.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

This was an interesting page.

The mythical pattern of a hero

1. Hero's mother is a royal virgin;
2. His father is a king, and
3. Often a near relative of his mother, but
4. The circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
5. He is also reputed to be the son of a god.
6. At birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or his maternal grand father to kill him, but
7. he is spirited away, and
8. Reared by foster -parents in a far country.
9. We are told nothing of his childhood, but
10. On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future Kingdom.
11. After a victory over the king and/or a giant, dragon, or wild beast,
12. He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor and
13. And becomes king.
14. For a time he reigns uneventfully and
15. Prescribes laws, but
16. Later he loses favor with the gods and/or his subjects, and
17. Is driven from the throne and city, after which
18. He meets with a mysterious death,
19. Often at the top of a hill,
20. His children, if any do not succeed him.
21. His body is not buried, but nevertheless
22. He has one or more holy sepulchres.

1. Quite rare. More common for heroes to be divine bastards. I can't remember any virgin births other then Jesus and Darth Vader. I suspect that Ancients found celestial kinkiness more arousing.

2. Fairly normal. Besides rule of cool, it is a convenient way to explain why the Hero is interested in high politics.

3. As most people are near relations to their mother, I assume you mean the parents were practicing endogamy. Fairly common among nobility and among scattered populations.

4. And often quite fearsome. Ghengis Khan was grasping a blood clot and Ivan the Terrible had an eclipse or a thunderstorm I forget which. Paul Atreides' mother rebelled against the Bene Geserit.

5. More common then virgin births.

6. Quite common

7. Also common. Supposedly happened to Cyrus the Great.

8. Ditto

9. Common though there are exceptions. Turin Turumbar had a tender relation with his father's retainer.

10. Quite common

11. Note Aragorn, Paul Atreides, etc.

12. And she is always very beautiful. Justifiable when you think about it as commoner women have to work and haven't access to cosmetics.

13. Of course

14. Not necessarily. Being a great conqueror is always fun.

15. Varies. Often these are military laws to improve the new monarchs army. "United the tribes" is also popular and is naturally associated with prescribing laws. All perfectly natural.

16. A favorite of the Greeks. Jews liked it too though sometimes he repented and won favor back. Sometimes favor of the gods is lost by the heroes descendants. Also the waning phase of the Cycle of Empires is a popular alternative and among highly religious cultures is pretty much the same thing.

17. Naturally. A lot of thrones depended on Klingon Promotion.

18. Of course. And the body is never found.

19. Huh?

20. Unless it is the founding myth of a dynasty.

21. Well, yes

22. You forgot about being enchanted so he can return and rescue his people.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

1. Quite rare. More common for heroes to be divine bastards. I can't remember any virgin births other then Jesus and Darth Vader. I suspect that Ancients found celestial kinkiness more arousing.

Romulus and Remus. Siddharta Gautauma. Perseus.

Google turns up Amunothph III (Egypt), Attis (Phrygia), Fohi (China), Plato (Greece), Adonis (Greece), Quetzalcoatl (Mexico), Hercules (Greece), Indra (Tibet), Devaki (India), Alexander the Great (Greece), Augustus (Rome).

All of these have been attributed to virgin births. I doubt it.