Help me with this "What if"

D10 · 03-26-2013, 04:58 PM

A friend of mine is getting ready to GM for the first time, his world is basically a parallel earth where magic "came back" in 1 AD, due to banestormish effects.

The game is set to start at 1100, and this is the world map at this moment. http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2...ineversion.jpg

Some ideas we played with so far to get to where we got.

Islam never really happened, as powerfull sorcerers and warlocks commanded a quite real power, instead, a very powerfull sorcerer called Raidran created a sort of religious philosophy that sees magic as a divine phenomenae, a sees mages as sorts of eyes and hands of the gods, eventually he took a monotheistic tone and started conquering the hearts and minds of the people, eventually he overthrew the local power and went on to create whats basically christianity main competitor.

He and his followers would have basically overthrown most powers in the middle east and installed a new order, over the centuries they would have all sorts of divergences and split into these major states that you can see on the map.

Christianity is somewhat different, as many priests would actually be mages trained by the catholic church with the purpose of having spells that allows them to be effective priests, and the study and use of magic would be seen as something that can only be done from within the church else it will lead to evil.

England for instance, had both help of druids and christian mages against the viking invasions, and as such the vikings invested a lore more effort into going to america (specially with their own magical helps).

The Byzantine empire would be essentially controled by a cabal of mages called the illuminati, based in antioch, they would have defeated their rivals in a shadow war and overtaken control of the empire, effectivelly reliving the importance of the senate and even making a constitution, that had egalitarian concepts and was overall very progressive, amongst other things, it declared the roman republic as having no official religion as of 1088, altho christianism is by far and large the most popular one.

Dark Elf refugees found this world around 450, and have established a powerbase in the gulf of guinea (the mandinga kingdoms on the map), and an elven task force was sent to track them down and kill them, but due to the elusiveness of the dark elves, and the fact that constantly opening portals made both this world and the elfs native world more likely to be invaded by demons, they decide to make a permanent foothold until the problem was solved, and established a powerbase in the area shown as grand hibernia on the map.

Early 0AD banestorms would also have displaced populations of dwarves and other fantasy races, but the world is 99% human as far as sentient things go.

But I really wanted to hear from you guys, what do you think would be some of the implications of having magic appear at 0AD, mostly to enrich the setting with your input, as he is quite set on having a "as organic as possible" setting, nothing you read here is set in stone, and this is mostly just what we have done so far.

Sry for the map quality, had to reduce due to size.

~~Peter Knutsen~~ · 03-27-2013, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D10

England for instance, had both help of druids and christian mages against the viking invasions, and as such the vikings invested a lore more effort into going to america (specially with their own magical helps).

Why are there druids in England in the viking age? And do you know why it is called England?

~~combatmedic~~ · 03-27-2013, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Why are there druids in England in the viking age? And do you know why it is called England?

I'm guessing that his druids are Irish or Welsh and that the ecclesiastical history of the British Isles is very different than in our timeline.

If "England" exists, I must presume that the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes have arrived and taken possession of most of southern Britian, more or less as in OTL.

But maybe he's just using the name 'England' to refer to the southern half of the island of Britain?

Gorkamorka · 03-27-2013, 04:51 AM

What does magic allow you to do that one could not do at that time?
What does that mean for the world. Other then borders.

I would answer these questions in once sentience and then try to figure out the results.

How does it affect war?
How does it affect commerce?
How does it affect food production?
How does it affect medicine?

Here are my answers, feel free to ignore.
War. Not much, It's mostly about men killing men. But it does affect spying and recon. So battles are more of a standup fight and less sneaking around.

Commerce. Mages control the import of rare and hard to get things. They don't bother with bulk, but if you want rare spice you better talk to the mages guild. It does mean that mages know about China and the Americas. If you can fly in bird form or teleport then distances become a non issue.

Food production. Just get rid of the food and beneficial plant spells and essential earth spell. Other vice you have to rewrite the whole social structure.

Medicine. Only the nobles and high status priests can afford healing magic. This mean that the gap between the peasants and nobles gets even bigger. The short lived peasants hate the noble class even more. Rebellions and uprisings might get more common. Proto communism might flourish. It also means that the nobles would be even more dependant on the church for healing and longevity. The church could be even a bigger political force.

~~combatmedic~~ · 03-27-2013, 05:06 AM

Many Christian mage-priests may simply give away free healing for the poor. If all the magic costs is a few FP, why wouldn't they do so? It's very much in line with their religion's core teachings and it is great PR.
That doesn't mean that nobles won't have better access due to hefty donations and political ties.

Gorkamorka · 03-27-2013, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Many Christian mage-priests may simply give away free healing for the poor. If all the magic costs is a few FP, why wouldn't they do so? It's very much in line with their religion's core teachings and it is great PR.
That doesn't mean that nobles won't have better access due to hefty donations and political ties.

Here are my assumption and what they lead to:
I'm assuming that priests who are mages have been educated in Rome or another big city. They would therefore end up as the higher ups of the church. Bishops, abbots and such. In medieval time the Catholic church was much more political then it is now. The pope actively meddled in European politics. Kings get crowned by popes and bishops for a reason.

Given that only the higher echelons of the church can work major magic and the higher up of the church are political. I can't see them not utilising magic for political means. You could easily rule Europe through medicine alone. GURPS magic can even make you immortal if you just borrow a year from other people here and there. Hmm, Immortal pope...

~~Peter Knutsen~~ · 03-27-2013, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorkamorka

Medicine. Only the nobles and high status priests can afford healing magic. This mean that the gap between the peasants and nobles gets even bigger. The short lived peasants hate the noble class even more. Rebellions and uprisings might get more common. Proto communism might flourish. It also means that the nobles would be even more dependant on the church for healing and longevity. The church could be even a bigger political force.

Don't forget my usual hobby horse: reproductive effects. If great care is not taken, the end result will be 60's style women's liberation and Eternal Sexual Freedom.

Tuk the Weekah · 03-29-2013, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Don't forget my usual hobby horse: reproductive effects. If great care is not taken, the end result will be 60's style women's liberation and Eternal Sexual Freedom.

That really depends on what the Church's views are on St. Augustine (specifically, the concept of Original Sin originating with Irenaeus & popularized by Augustine). If only the Church has magic (or even if they are only the primary source of magic), and the Church believes that any form of contraception is damning the unborn child's soul to Hell, then I don't see a market existing for developing contraceptive magic.

Just a thought, here: if the Church is a primary (or even the primary) source for magic, then the application of said magic would be, at least hypothetically, focused on salvation. This would imply that they would not have much use for magic that extends the life of the faithful--magic that keeps them locked in a sinful world, increasing their chances of damnation, rather than letting them journey on to their Reward.

D10 · 03-27-2013, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combatmedic

I'm guessing that his druids are Irish or Welsh and that the ecclesiastical history of the British Isles is very different than in our timeline.

If "England" exists, I must presume that the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes have arrived and taken possession of most of southern Britian, more or less as in OTL.

But maybe he's just using the name 'England' to refer to the southern half of the island of Britain?

My friend is a big bernard cornwell fan and plans to include king arthur and all that saga leading about fighting invaders and etc...

Merlin would exist but hes actually a very powerfull elven mage that uses a human disguise and mostly just hangs around albion and ireland laying the foundations for for what would become an order of druids.

The main objective is basically to empower humans against mystical threats and creating a spy network for the elves,i still nees to read more about this

~~combatmedic~~ · 03-27-2013, 09:18 AM

I do like your idea, Gorkamorka. I was just presenting an alternative. Given the eventual commodifcation of indulgences and other abuses, your take isn't implausible. I like to present the other side of things, pointing out the many good works done by the Church, which I think far outweigh the abuses. But if rampant corruption and hypocrisy works better for you, go with it.

03-26-2013, 04:58 PM	#1
D10 Join Date: May 2009 Location: In Rio de Janeiro, where it was cyberpunk before it was cool.	Help me with this "What if" A friend of mine is getting ready to GM for the first time, his world is basically a parallel earth where magic "came back" in 1 AD, due to banestormish effects. The game is set to start at 1100, and this is the world map at this moment. http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2...ineversion.jpg Some ideas we played with so far to get to where we got. Islam never really happened, as powerfull sorcerers and warlocks commanded a quite real power, instead, a very powerfull sorcerer called Raidran created a sort of religious philosophy that sees magic as a divine phenomenae, a sees mages as sorts of eyes and hands of the gods, eventually he took a monotheistic tone and started conquering the hearts and minds of the people, eventually he overthrew the local power and went on to create whats basically christianity main competitor. He and his followers would have basically overthrown most powers in the middle east and installed a new order, over the centuries they would have all sorts of divergences and split into these major states that you can see on the map. Christianity is somewhat different, as many priests would actually be mages trained by the catholic church with the purpose of having spells that allows them to be effective priests, and the study and use of magic would be seen as something that can only be done from within the church else it will lead to evil. England for instance, had both help of druids and christian mages against the viking invasions, and as such the vikings invested a lore more effort into going to america (specially with their own magical helps). The Byzantine empire would be essentially controled by a cabal of mages called the illuminati, based in antioch, they would have defeated their rivals in a shadow war and overtaken control of the empire, effectivelly reliving the importance of the senate and even making a constitution, that had egalitarian concepts and was overall very progressive, amongst other things, it declared the roman republic as having no official religion as of 1088, altho christianism is by far and large the most popular one. Dark Elf refugees found this world around 450, and have established a powerbase in the gulf of guinea (the mandinga kingdoms on the map), and an elven task force was sent to track them down and kill them, but due to the elusiveness of the dark elves, and the fact that constantly opening portals made both this world and the elfs native world more likely to be invaded by demons, they decide to make a permanent foothold until the problem was solved, and established a powerbase in the area shown as grand hibernia on the map. Early 0AD banestorms would also have displaced populations of dwarves and other fantasy races, but the world is 99% human as far as sentient things go. But I really wanted to hear from you guys, what do you think would be some of the implications of having magic appear at 0AD, mostly to enrich the setting with your input, as he is quite set on having a "as organic as possible" setting, nothing you read here is set in stone, and this is mostly just what we have done so far. Sry for the map quality, had to reduce due to size. Last edited by D10; 03-26-2013 at 05:12 PM.

03-27-2013, 04:51 AM	#4
Gorkamorka Ceci n'est pas un hyperlien Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Iceland	Re: Help me with this "What if" What does magic allow you to do that one could not do at that time? What does that mean for the world. Other then borders. I would answer these questions in once sentience and then try to figure out the results. How does it affect war? How does it affect commerce? How does it affect food production? How does it affect medicine? Here are my answers, feel free to ignore. War. Not much, It's mostly about men killing men. But it does affect spying and recon. So battles are more of a standup fight and less sneaking around. Commerce. Mages control the import of rare and hard to get things. They don't bother with bulk, but if you want rare spice you better talk to the mages guild. It does mean that mages know about China and the Americas. If you can fly in bird form or teleport then distances become a non issue. Food production. Just get rid of the food and beneficial plant spells and essential earth spell. Other vice you have to rewrite the whole social structure. Medicine. Only the nobles and high status priests can afford healing magic. This mean that the gap between the peasants and nobles gets even bigger. The short lived peasants hate the noble class even more. Rebellions and uprisings might get more common. Proto communism might flourish. It also means that the nobles would be even more dependant on the church for healing and longevity. The church could be even a bigger political force.

03-27-2013, 05:06 AM	#5
~~combatmedic~~ Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: a crooked, creaky manse built on a blasted heath	Re: Help me with this "What if" Many Christian mage-priests may simply give away free healing for the poor. If all the magic costs is a few FP, why wouldn't they do so? It's very much in line with their religion's core teachings and it is great PR. That doesn't mean that nobles won't have better access due to hefty donations and political ties.

03-27-2013, 09:18 AM	#10
~~combatmedic~~ Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: a crooked, creaky manse built on a blasted heath	Re: Help me with this "What if" I do like your idea, Gorkamorka. I was just presenting an alternative. Given the eventual commodifcation of indulgences and other abuses, your take isn't implausible. I like to present the other side of things, pointing out the many good works done by the Church, which I think far outweigh the abuses. But if rampant corruption and hypocrisy works better for you, go with it.