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Old 12-01-2009, 11:22 AM   #45
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mainz, Germany
Default Re: Role of archers in low-tech parties?

Originally Posted by Sword-dancer View Post
i didnīt meanīt turning around the whole formation only to redirect the last lines zo form a shieldwall, Karree, testudo etc
which nevertheless will inevitably slow your advance, not to mention confuse your soldiers - only well-disciplined troops can actually win out against horse archers.

phoenix42 wrote shortbow or crossbow
Originally Posted by Sword-dancer View Post
reloading a crossbow is not an easy task mounted if at all possible and a shortbow is a lousy weapon for combat use
do you really believe that the Warriors wouldnīt change front and stand like toy soldiers in show formation?
indeed - crossbows are difficult to reload, granted; I was talking about composite shortbows, which are the ones used from horseback in the examples I cited.

Also, if you're planning on taking on a formation, you should really either have a) lots of friends armed like you or b) have balls of steel.
Nobody's doubting (at least I wasn't) that there are methods for footmen and heavy cavalry to defeat horse archers in battle. But that is a question of discipline, formation and tactical intelligence, things that aren't all too relevant for players outside a very detailed military campaign.

i thought they ended in hungary looked at central european country seeing the woods, no place to feed their ponys said thank you and went home.
Actually they ended in bohemia, if one is precise (the borderlines not being as perfect back then) and merely decided to go back because their Khan had just died and they had to elect a new one. It has been pointed out often enough by historians and alternate universians that if this Khan had lived longer, Western Europe may well not have survived.

Using a composite bow to īve a decent chance to do damage you must go so close to havy cav that one slight miscalculation or a well timed and calculated counterattack ist pure disaster.
I think the mongols would have begged to differ. Plus this is really not what the discussion is about. If you are up against a formation of cavalry as a player, of course you don't go riding up close to them. But that's not due to arms, that's because there's only one of you (or maybe up to four) and lots of them. Battle tactics don't translate well into skirmish and small group tactics for players.

Wheras as slid medium foot can encircle themselves and shoot at you at greater range with long and crossbows, in combination with cav who sally at the right moment.
How exactly is this relevant to the question at hand, being group (note group, not batallions or armies) encounters and character decisions for personal armament? The original problem was that characters using ranged weapons are quickly outflanked and closed upon by melee-armed enemies; the simplest way of preventing this is starting off and staying as far away from them as possible while maintaining adequate range to use your weapon.

This is achieved best by either being somewhere they can't get, or being faster than they are. If your foe is already on horseback, shoot the horse. Of course this can go wrong, everything can - but it's still probably the best way to survive if you're playing a dedicated archer character.

Last edited by Phoenix42; 12-01-2009 at 11:32 AM.
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