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Plane · 05-30-2021, 09:47 PM

This is in reference to MA118's "Grab and Smash" section under "Twofers" where "Kiss the Wall" (normally an unpenalized roll against DX or your combat to hit) is altered to use the worst of the hit location penalties (what you grappled, or what you're hitting)

One of the realism problems with this is going by MA you could have some ST 5 guy grappling some ST 15 guy and throwing him around without a problem into some foe. Yeah it'd be low-thrust, but you could cause situations not relying on your striking ST for damage, like smacking their face into a fire elemental and taking 2d burning, for example.

I'm wondering if anyone has ideas on how we might use the Control Point system to make this a bit harder to do.

TG does deal with SOME of "grab and smash" but I think it only pays attention to the first part ("grapple and strike") where you can get damage bonuses when you're striking something you've grappled.

Twofers/"Kissing" isn't something I can find dealt with in TG, unless I'm overlooking it.

Twofers:KTW on MA118 does mention "If either foe defends, nobody is hurt" which I think is a followup to "Your opponent may either dodge or parry with a free hand, subject to Defense While Grappling" which allows defenses against the basic "kiss the wall" attack.

The problem there is it still gives you utter freedom to toss someone who can't defend (ie did an All-Out Attack) regardless of their mass.

TG20 under "Strength as a Proxy for mass" doesn't list Kiss the Wall but it seems like it would be a good candidate for inclusion against something which always gets a mass-based defense, since it includes similar things like Judo Throws or Shoving People Around.

More importantly, going by TG8's Mass-Based Moves, couldn't we also apply a penalty to the DX roll to Kiss the Wall based on the weight of the person you're trying to get to kiss the wall?

05-30-2021, 09:47 PM	#1
Plane Join Date: Aug 2018	Kiss the Enemy and Technical Grappling This is in reference to MA118's "Grab and Smash" section under "Twofers" where "Kiss the Wall" (normally an unpenalized roll against DX or your combat to hit) is altered to use the worst of the hit location penalties (what you grappled, or what you're hitting) One of the realism problems with this is going by MA you could have some ST 5 guy grappling some ST 15 guy and throwing him around without a problem into some foe. Yeah it'd be low-thrust, but you could cause situations not relying on your striking ST for damage, like smacking their face into a fire elemental and taking 2d burning, for example. I'm wondering if anyone has ideas on how we might use the Control Point system to make this a bit harder to do. TG does deal with SOME of "grab and smash" but I think it only pays attention to the first part ("grapple and strike") where you can get damage bonuses when you're striking something you've grappled. Twofers/"Kissing" isn't something I can find dealt with in TG, unless I'm overlooking it. Twofers:KTW on MA118 does mention "If either foe defends, nobody is hurt" which I think is a followup to "Your opponent may either dodge or parry with a free hand, subject to Defense While Grappling" which allows defenses against the basic "kiss the wall" attack. The problem there is it still gives you utter freedom to toss someone who can't defend (ie did an All-Out Attack) regardless of their mass. TG20 under "Strength as a Proxy for mass" doesn't list Kiss the Wall but it seems like it would be a good candidate for inclusion against something which always gets a mass-based defense, since it includes similar things like Judo Throws or Shoving People Around. More importantly, going by TG8's Mass-Based Moves, couldn't we also apply a penalty to the DX roll to Kiss the Wall based on the weight of the person you're trying to get to kiss the wall?