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Old 03-11-2021, 10:10 AM   #2
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling

Originally Posted by RedMattis View Post
I personally like the Fantastic Dungeon Grappling a bit more for its simplicity, but there are some points which I'm wondering are because of space requirements/simplicity or balance.
Simplicity and conformity with the rules and assumptions for a product that supports the Dungeon Fantasy RPG. "Balance" is tricky no matter what.

We tried to distill it down to its essence, remove the special-case rules that made it more complex than needed.

Constriction Attack inflicts double CP in Technical Grappling. This seems gone in Fantastic Grappling.
If one hearkens back to the Basic Set, Constriction Attack is just "you can roll a QC and damage your opponent each turn after a grapple."

The quick-version of Strangle in FDG returns to this concept, and Constriction attack in FDG just says "yah, you can do this by crushing the BODY, not just the NECK." It's simpler, requires no special cases, and closer to both the Basic Set and the (more pertinent) rules for Suffocation on Exploits p. 70.

one of the reasons for the extra CP in the original TG was the requirement to (almost) always spend CP for damage. You'll notice that's not always enforced in FDG, though it's always optional. While it worked as a mechanic, narratively it was always jarring.

The Binding advantage is also not mentioned.
Not precisely true. It is mentioned on p. 8 in "It's a Trap!"

Should we assume it just inflicts CP as normal? What about stuff like spider-web or anything with layering? Should we just assume there is no upper CP limit for it?
The strength of a binding is set by the power/ability design. Much like any other grappling attack, it has a maximum grapple power equal to 2x it's Control Maximum. For a spell or power that just grabs you and never rolls to defend itself, I'd just let CP accumulate to that maximum value and then that's it.

Also, Engulfing doubled CP inflicted, do you still think this should be a thing?
I don't think so. If you wanted to make an engulfing attack harder to break out of, assign Control Resistance as recommended in "It's a Trap!"

I don't see any mention of how much CR inflicted by grappling with weapons either, or the max CR. Technical Grappling had a bunch of rules about leverage?
Technical Grappling more or less tried to provide special consideration for everything, because I was a novice writer. "A bunch of rules..." for everything is less helpful than good guidance and fewer special cases...or that's what years of playing with the rules in actual games taught me.

Control Resistance is not a feature of most weapons. Special items like handcuffs, sure (see It's a Trap again). The maximum CR will depend on the device. Cuffs sufficient to entrap a ST 50 giant will probably have CR of 25 or even more.

Grappling with weapons is now a bit of a switch. Some weapons (most weapons, since you can "grapple" with a sword or shield using the Weapon/Shield Bind concept, it's just your foe can escape from that kind of grapple simply by backing up) enable you to grapple with them, from a distance. CP rolled is set by your thrust damage, and Judo or Melee Weapon gives boosts for skill. It would be entirely plausible for a GM to say "Hmm...a garotte is a purpose-built grappling weapon, so we're going to base it on the Wrestling progression instead of Judo."

Returning to the beginning: Keeping it simple was the goal. The Chaotic GM has a great piece on how you can do just about every Technique in TG with FDG for those who want more detail.
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