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Old 07-23-2019, 02:40 PM   #43
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: IQ to power spells

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
Okay, my apologies for mistaking your intent there; but I fail to grasp how using ST to cast spells and using a staff to store "ST" (or its equivalent, "fatigue" or, nowadays "Mana") for casting spells is essentially different from using IQ to cast spells and using a staff to store "IQ" (or its equivalent, "Mana")...
And you're right, those are exactly the same systems just using different names for the same parts. We're all probably 99% in agreement here about how we want things to work, just not all using the same terms for it.

"Mana", as we've used it here, might get construed as a new source of power for spells, but I'm guessing that's not what anyone is actually proposing. I'm not! I wouldn't like it either. That would be like a new attribute, and one only wizards would benefit from. The beauty of TFT is that it runs so well on so few attributes.

"Mana" as I would use it is more a term to differentiate spell fatigue from other, regular fatigue. Mana isn't a power (except to the characters in our fantasy worlds who think it is) it's a limit. A box on the record sheet for tallying spells cast. We use a figure's total, starting ST as the limit on wounds and regular fatigue combined. Under the RAW a third thing, fatigue due to spell costs, is also counted against that total, but I for one would like the latter to be given it's own name and it's own little box on the record sheet. Some here have said they never counted spell fatigue and wounds against the same limit, and that's all I'm saying too, just giving spell fatigue a fancy name for thematic color. The wizard might scream, "Oh no, I've used up half my mana!" but is unlikely to say, in character, "Oh no, I've used up half my spell fatigue limit!"

But what we still have to talk about is just what that separate, spell fatigue limit should be (if you use one in your game).

JLV said above, "but I fail to grasp how using ST to cast spells... is essentially different from using IQ to cast". It's not a difference of kind, only a difference of quantity. In wizards IQ tends to be a bigger number than ST, a much bigger number in a senior archmage. So if the Mana limit is based on IQ, some of us are going to think that's too high a limit to put on what spells a wizard casts in combat. If the limit is based on ST, some of us are going to think the limit is too low. In the first case it is more "power" than wizards have to spend in the RAW, in the 2nd case it's just the same amount of power as in the RAW.

Typical 32 Point Wizards under two different Mana limiting systems:
MV limit=IQ: ST 9, DX 10, IQ 13 can power 13 points of spells before rest
MV limit=ST: ST 9, DX 10, IQ 13 can power 09 points of spells before rest

Yes, it's skewed, but it's only a 4 point skew, not earthshaking.

Two 40 Point Wizards under two different Mana limiting systems:
MV limit=IQ: ST 11, DX 12, IQ 17 can power 17 points of spells before rest
MV limit=ST: ST 11, DX 12, IQ 17 can power 11 points of spells before rest

Now we're skewed 6 points. Earthshaking? YMMV! Not many wizards in my experience get to 40 AP anyway, and they might put a little more XP on increasing DX or ST -- I know mine did -- making the final IQ lower than the one in the example above.

Let's look at this 40 Point wizard instead:
MV limit=IQ: ST 12, DX 14, IQ 14 can power 14 points of spells before rest
MV limit=ST: ST 12, DX 14, IQ 14 can power 12 points of spells before rest

We're down to only a 2 point difference between the two models! That's only half the difference between the two 32 Point mages. The earth isn't budging an inch over this.

The Mana spending limit based on IQ isn't that much of an enhancement for the more advanced, experienced wizard. It's much more help to the brand new, typical starting wizard -- the anemic ones who always die young! Yes it's rather counter intuitive. You'd think the higher IQ wizard would be over-advantaged by the Mana limit set at IQ, but in fact it's the lower wizard who benefits much more, proportionately to a ST based limit.

Yes, you could have an "abuser". You could have a 40 point wizard who also started at ST 9 and DX 10, but put all their XP on IQ and never increased the other attributes. That would mean an IQ of 21, so a whopping Mana limit of 21 -- but only if they lived that long! I wouldn't bet any money on a ST 9, DX 10 wizard lasting until they reached IQ 21 -- who would?

Lastly, another part of the beauty in TFT is that it's so easy to fine tune. If ST seems like too low a Mana limit for some, but too high a Mana limit for others, there's nothing wrong with making a house rule such that the Mana limit = IQ-2. Or it could = ST+2. We're used to dealing with pluses and minuses all the time.

Last edited by Steve Plambeck; 07-23-2019 at 02:53 PM. Reason: typos
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