[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Sindri

Yes. It's not a feature of "watches" it's a feature of "clockwork" and clockwork covers other things, like wheellocks.

But clockwork is broad enough category that different things within it are assessed by different metrics.

And bringing in digital watches is very much relevant to watches and not to guns.

Originally Posted by Sindri

I have never attempted to, and need not do so.

So again where the "more" that you implied existed?

Originally Posted by Sindri

It's not meaningless at all. They are derived from clockwork technology, also require skilled workers to produce and allow more room for the crafter to showcase his technical skill than a flintlock does.

So again as above show where that extra craft actually manifests in increased functionality. Otherwise you just have a complex difficult thing that adds no benefit compared to the simpler thing. to go back to my original point, complexity of design is not a inherent good thing if it doesn't come with anything in return.

So again where is the increased functionality given by the clockwork wheel lock?

Originally Posted by Sindri

Uh, no. No one has come up with something that fits within the granularity of the game. Despite not needing any technical advantages at all faster ignition is totally the sort of thing people will point to as making a technology the correct choice for discerning users who are willing to spare the expense if there aren't other things that make it unsuitable.

So same point again, it's matter of functionality, so where is the improved functionality of wheellocks.

Remember clockwork got easier to make, the skills became more widespread as time went on, so the barriers to wheellocks lowered, so if they also came with a increase in functionality why did we not see their continued use?

Flintlocks came in after wheellocks and during the period when wheellocks would have been getting easier to produce.

Originally Posted by Sindri

If wheellocks don't have a significant downside for the wealthy all that is necessary for their continued presence is for it to be plausible for them to have grown attached to them given the right circumstances.

I agree, but since that didn't happen we can either assume that there was either some downside, or those circumstances didn't occur

Originally Posted by Sindri

No it doesn't. It just needs to allow people to distinguish between items with varying reputation for quality.

yes but the reputation has to be established and maintained by being their. Remember we're talking about a very small market here. And ultimately we get back to the same point, reliability is aspect fo functionality, again where is the advantage that wheel locks enjoy over flint locks.

Originally Posted by Sindri

There never was a point to begin with. The status of exterior decorations is completely irrelevant because it doesn't interact with the mechanism, .

That only true if we accept you inherent point that status was irrevocably linked to the internal mechanisms, and you have not demonstrated that is the case. We know decoration was however a key component of an objects status. Even if we did accept you assertion that still wouldn't make it either or, but decoration and mechanism

Originally Posted by Sindri

nor would being paramount mean that gaucheness isn't a thing if people haven't yet started replacing random things with solid gold.

hate to break it to you but when ever and where ever they could they did

Originally Posted by Sindri

Reasons have been produced. You apparently have problems with them and I'm responding to your comments regarding them. Please don't take that to mean that the subject of the thread is "can wheellocks coexist with flintlocks and if so, how". The subject at the start was finding small details to differentiate more the various weapons in the wheellocks and flintlocks category and I remain interested in hearing different perspectives on that. I'm also interested in the ideas being generated regarding other alternate lock technologies.

Sorry so far you reason seem to be limited to "because clockwork" and vague allusions to things below GURPS level granularity without actually going into much detail.

We've discussed clockwork but you seem unwilling to address the point about clock work in the different contexts it was used in (watches vs guns)

Originally Posted by Sindri

I'm not envisioning a society with a particular obsession for clockwork. It's just a more difficult mechanism to make.

OK, it's just that by itself is not reason for increased status (I mean it can be part of it, but it normally comes with other factors, and is context specific)

Originally Posted by Sindri

Your post was talking about proportionality. However proportionality doesn't matter in this context. It isn't how people make decisions in terms of status items.

No teh point you were making was: "wheel locks were more expensive than flint locks (being clock work), more expensive things are higher status, ergo wheel locks were higher status than flint locks."

My point was: "but given the all the extra costs of the decoration on top of each, the actually difference in price due to the mechanism is minuscule in comparison to the actual overall cost of the gun. So ergo any increases in status directly derived from different costs of the underlying mechanism in equally minuscule."

So inherent cost not relevant, so we come back to functionality