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hal · 05-15-2021, 07:09 AM

After seeing some of the responses, I figure I'll weigh in one more time and then this beastie rest.

The primary intent wasn't to ask for rules supporting whether one could or should allow magery to be upgradable trait - but to have a good rationale for WHY it is upgradable within the scope of the story.

Having to undergo a major trial that has either a physical component or a mental component or both - that severely jeopardizes the well being of the character in a gamble to improve the existing magery trait - would be a reasonable rationale. Having it be a simple "Throw points at it and it improves" is not. Saying that one simply improves it by use - implies that Magery is a Trait. Saying that mere knowledge is what is involved in raising it from Magery 0 to Magery 1 - is NOT implied to be true with GURPS MAGIC as it is currently set up.

You can not learn a spell if you do not have the requisite magery to learn said spell. It has nothing to do with the IQ of the character, which is the attribute you turn to for determining how well a skill functions. Even the dumbest of Humans can learn Abstract Mathematics in GURPS just by being patient and training them up from their IQ 7 level to where they can perform abstract mathematics. Yet, a character without the Mageborn 1 advantage, can not even try to learn the spell that requires Magery 1 as a prerequisite.

So - Old school that I am where each level of Magery is "Inborn as a trait, separate from each other" - I wanted to at least have a rationale for allowing Magery to go from Magery 0, to Magery 1, to Magery 2 to Magery three. Something that isn't already covered by the Skill Thaumatology, something that isn't covered by Skills of any kind, nor Treat Magery as an Attribute.

So, arguing the merits of what Ritual Magic is - missed my original point with regards to GURPS MAGIC.

Sadly, Magery is a catch all for not just GURPS MAGIC, but for other forms of Magic used with the GURPS system.

Frankly, I rather LOVED the system in GURPS SPIRITS - an outgrowth of GURPS VOODOO. If I had my choice, I'd lift the ENTIRE magic system devised by CJ Carella for use within his EDEN STUDIOS books WITCHCRAFT and ARMAGEDDON. Unfortunately, GURPS does not have a way to easily describe the ability to channel "energy reserve: Magic only". But CJ Carella's magic system combines (in my opinion) the BEST of GURPS RITUAL MAGIC and GURPS MAGIC (the book).

But, at least now you can maybe understand why I asked in the first place. Too many of the responses were not based on the "World building design" but on the "Because players LOVE being able to improve".

When playing with the rules, beware the Domino effect: Change one thing, and it affects something else further down the line of dominos that get toppled.

05-15-2021, 07:09 AM	#65
hal Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Buffalo, New York	Re: Magery as an improvable advantage? After seeing some of the responses, I figure I'll weigh in one more time and then this beastie rest. The primary intent wasn't to ask for rules supporting whether one could or should allow magery to be upgradable trait - but to have a good rationale for WHY it is upgradable within the scope of the story. Having to undergo a major trial that has either a physical component or a mental component or both - that severely jeopardizes the well being of the character in a gamble to improve the existing magery trait - would be a reasonable rationale. Having it be a simple "Throw points at it and it improves" is not. Saying that one simply improves it by use - implies that Magery is a Trait. Saying that mere knowledge is what is involved in raising it from Magery 0 to Magery 1 - is NOT implied to be true with GURPS MAGIC as it is currently set up. You can not learn a spell if you do not have the requisite magery to learn said spell. It has nothing to do with the IQ of the character, which is the attribute you turn to for determining how well a skill functions. Even the dumbest of Humans can learn Abstract Mathematics in GURPS just by being patient and training them up from their IQ 7 level to where they can perform abstract mathematics. Yet, a character without the Mageborn 1 advantage, can not even try to learn the spell that requires Magery 1 as a prerequisite. So - Old school that I am where each level of Magery is "Inborn as a trait, separate from each other" - I wanted to at least have a rationale for allowing Magery to go from Magery 0, to Magery 1, to Magery 2 to Magery three. Something that isn't already covered by the Skill Thaumatology, something that isn't covered by Skills of any kind, nor Treat Magery as an Attribute. So, arguing the merits of what Ritual Magic is - missed my original point with regards to GURPS MAGIC. Sadly, Magery is a catch all for not just GURPS MAGIC, but for other forms of Magic used with the GURPS system. Frankly, I rather LOVED the system in GURPS SPIRITS - an outgrowth of GURPS VOODOO. If I had my choice, I'd lift the ENTIRE magic system devised by CJ Carella for use within his EDEN STUDIOS books WITCHCRAFT and ARMAGEDDON. Unfortunately, GURPS does not have a way to easily describe the ability to channel "energy reserve: Magic only". But CJ Carella's magic system combines (in my opinion) the BEST of GURPS RITUAL MAGIC and GURPS MAGIC (the book). But, at least now you can maybe understand why I asked in the first place. Too many of the responses were not based on the "World building design" but on the "Because players LOVE being able to improve". When playing with the rules, beware the Domino effect: Change one thing, and it affects something else further down the line of dominos that get toppled.