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Old 02-22-2020, 12:59 AM   #4
bocephus
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default Re: can a Knee Strike be delivered with a Thigh or Shin instead of a Knee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
This screenshot of a UFC knockout might help explain what I mean here...

When I talk about a thigh strike, I'm still talking about the distal (knee-adjacent) portion of the thigh. So that you still get some decent leverage. Go too high and we risk start getting into the Hip/Pelvis/Groin region of armor protection anyway.

I think of the "knee" location (being described as a merely 5% or 1/20 of the leg) as being pretty much just the patella, the patellar tendon, maybe a bit of the quadriceps tendon?

A lot of things informally called "knee strike" actually make contact with the bottom of the thigh rather than the tip of the knee. There wouldn't be a huge difference in leverage at that point.
I would say that a knee strike encompasses the region you describe as well as the 3-4 inches above that region on the Femur. Based on what martial arts I have done thats your "groin strike" and thats Knee damage/skill in my book.

That is a Knee strike in the picture. I cant tell if its to the opponents shoulder, laterally to the side of the head, or missed the head and overshot the shoulder... but I would rule that knee strike.

The interesting part is, I cant tell if he lunged directly into the target, or is moving his knee in some kind of arc combined with a lunge. Either way thats an all in attack and he is risking falling if his opponent was faking or not as stunned as he thought. He;s also giving up his defense because hes now in the air fully committed to his forward movement.


Quote:
Do you mean something along the lines like if a sumo used "Shove" (or a kareteka used "Push Kick") while targeting a groin that even though the damage for shoves functions somewhat like Crushing Attack (No Wounding -50%; Double Knockback +10%) that maybe there should be detrimental effects other than knockback to groin-shoving?

The way I figure is... we could still treat shoves and push kicks as having "Blunt Trauma" potential ("No Blunt Trauma" is a separate limitation from "No Injury" for Crushing Attack) so in situations where there's no Penetrating Damage, they could suffer 1 injury per 5 basic damage?

If not as a general rule, it might at least make sense for groin-shoves.

Or if it doesn't actually cause HP loss, at least cause the same shock as if you lost that much HP to Blunt Trauma?
Yes thats what I meant but I see the problem isnt the physics but the definition of where knee ends and thigh begins. Because of the physics of human movement a knee strike is exceedingly difficult to deliver as a lunge directly at a target. It gets its power from the anchor at the hip, so its moving in an arc with the striking surface not so much the patella as the end of the femur.

In your picture there is no multiplier applied to his force. Its just going to be body weight and leg strength to launch himself. That's not really good martial arts, its not completely ineffective, but its not a strong technique.

There are attacks where you are close contact grappling and can deliver that "patella" strike, but that power comes from arching your entire body (at the waist) into the opponent while pulling him or using him as leverage towards you driving the knee in. Those attacks also keep your one foot firmly on the ground.

I cant see ever attempting that from a arms length as in the picture, if you did, it would be all in and you have a good chance of falling or giving up any defense.

For me when talking about striking the "thigh" starts where the quadriceps start to get more bulk, below that is Knee, perhaps just not as effective depending on exactly where but thats a knee strike (poorly executed)
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