Steve Jackson Games Forums - View Single Post - Heavy crushing/smashing weapons: Why use them?

Landwalker · 05-08-2010, 01:39 PM

Follow-up: Of course, here's the question I really want to know the answer to:

Why would any character use one of the ‡ Two-handed Axe/Mace weapons ("THAMs") instead of the Dueling Polearms from Martial Arts?

("Not having access to Martial Arts" isn't a valid reason.)

Both groups of weapons are cheap—the most expensive, the Dueling Halberd, is $120, versus the $100 for a Great Axe/Warhammer, a Dueling Bill, or a Dueling Pollaxe and $80 for a Maul or Dueling Glaive.

Both groups of weapons deal comparable damage—a Dueling Halberd gets Sw+4 cut and Sw+3 imp or cr (if you replace the pick with a hammer), which puts it right in line with the Maul, Great Axe, and Warhammer (combined). The Dueling Poleaxe is right alongside it at sw+3 cut and sw+3 cr, again putting it on par with the THAM weapons, while the Dueling Bill (sw+2 cut / thr+3 imp / thr-1 cr) and Dueling Glaive (sw+2 cut / thr+3 imp) are close behind.

Both groups of weapons have comparable weights—the heaviest polearm is the 10-pound Dueling Halberd, so the 12-pound Maul has a slight advantage there (in that it can break 4-pound weapons, most notably the quarterstaff and the axe). The Dueling Poleaxe has the same 8-pound weight as the Great Axe. Dueling Glaives and Bills are only six pounds, putting them just behind the Warhammer and the lightest of the bunch. Still, pretty close overall.

Both groups of weapons have comparable reach and parry—pretty much all of the weapons in both groups are Reach 1,2* and Parry 0U, but the Dueling Polearms have the edge here due to their thrust options, which have Parry 0.

So what's the only significant difference?—Dueling Polearms are single-dagger Min ST weapons, while THAMs are double-dagger, and becoming unready after an attack is a brutal, brutal disadvantage. THAMs can only attack every other turn. THAMs can't use the Rapid Recovery option from Extra Effort to attack and parry in the same turn. In order to use a THAM with the same "readiness" efficacy as a Dueling Polearm, you have to have at least ST 18. But even if you do have ST 18 (or 20 for a Maul), there's still no compelling reason why you shouldn't just take that ST 18-20 and use it to swing around a Dueling Polearm, and you can be swinging around that Dueling Polearm much, much earlier in the ST progression just as well.

So, the real question is: Why in the world, from a mechanical standpoint, would anybody pick a THAM over a Dueling Polearm?

05-08-2010, 01:39 PM	#16
Landwalker Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Cumberland, ME	Re: Heavy crushing/smashing weapons: Why use them? Follow-up: Of course, here's the question I really want to know the answer to: Why would any character use one of the ‡ Two-handed Axe/Mace weapons ("THAMs") instead of the Dueling Polearms from Martial Arts? ("Not having access to Martial Arts" isn't a valid reason.) Both groups of weapons are cheap—the most expensive, the Dueling Halberd, is $120, versus the $100 for a Great Axe/Warhammer, a Dueling Bill, or a Dueling Pollaxe and $80 for a Maul or Dueling Glaive. Both groups of weapons deal comparable damage—a Dueling Halberd gets Sw+4 cut and Sw+3 imp or cr (if you replace the pick with a hammer), which puts it right in line with the Maul, Great Axe, and Warhammer (combined). The Dueling Poleaxe is right alongside it at sw+3 cut and sw+3 cr, again putting it on par with the THAM weapons, while the Dueling Bill (sw+2 cut / thr+3 imp / thr-1 cr) and Dueling Glaive (sw+2 cut / thr+3 imp) are close behind. Both groups of weapons have comparable weights—the heaviest polearm is the 10-pound Dueling Halberd, so the 12-pound Maul has a slight advantage there (in that it can break 4-pound weapons, most notably the quarterstaff and the axe). The Dueling Poleaxe has the same 8-pound weight as the Great Axe. Dueling Glaives and Bills are only six pounds, putting them just behind the Warhammer and the lightest of the bunch. Still, pretty close overall. Both groups of weapons have comparable reach and parry—pretty much all of the weapons in both groups are Reach 1,2* and Parry 0U, but the Dueling Polearms have the edge here due to their thrust options, which have Parry 0. So what's the only significant difference?—Dueling Polearms are single-dagger Min ST weapons, while THAMs are double-dagger, and becoming unready after an attack is a brutal, brutal disadvantage. THAMs can only attack every other turn. THAMs can't use the Rapid Recovery option from Extra Effort to attack and parry in the same turn. In order to use a THAM with the same "readiness" efficacy as a Dueling Polearm, you have to have at least ST 18. But even if you do have ST 18 (or 20 for a Maul), there's still no compelling reason why you shouldn't just take that ST 18-20 and use it to swing around a Dueling Polearm, and you can be swinging around that Dueling Polearm much, much earlier in the ST progression just as well. So, the real question is: Why in the world, from a mechanical standpoint, would anybody pick a THAM over a Dueling Polearm?