[Daigoro]

Regarding Japan, I don't think I got across quite what I was aiming at.

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Indeed conflict is good for a setting, but by setting up Japan as a cliched, completely evil empire means that any PCs who wanted to have a Japanese background or play in a steampunk Edo setting would have to justify being completely evil themselves. We can aim for a bit more nuance from our world-building. We can still say that they have their imperialistic power over the Asia-Pacific, achieved by military conquest and now in an uneasy status quo, but I see no reason to make them any worse than the European colonial powers.

I should possibly have said "I see no reason yet to make them any worse." Meaning, if we want to make Japan out to be evil in the setting, we need to show some more working, rather than just say that they're the same as OTL, considering there are different starting conditions.

Also, let me repeat the "not any worse than the European colonial powers" line- my understanding is that the behaviour of any of the European colonial powers was harsh and brutal in a lot of instances, therefore seeming avaricious and evil to those at the receiving end. So this was the yardstick I was applying to Japanese imperialism.

Originally Posted by tshiggins

Okay, I find these arguments compelling, now that you've presented them all comprehensively, in a single post. Imperial Japan is much more laid back in this timeline, as compared to our history, and the more peaceful Buddhist tendencies of the emperors seem to reign in Japan's powerful military.

Laid back might be overstating it, especially as we've already laid down a lot of background predicated on the notion of Japanese expansionism, and that's not going to be rewritten.

So, to be clear, my view is that the Japanese are as equally bad as the European powers in running their colonial campaigns. And if we want to paint them as being worse than the Europeans, we need to fit that into the historical context of them being active participants in the region for some time and therefore reaching a kind of power equilibrium with their neighbour states.

I thought the inherent tension would be enough of a source of conflict. Instead of the Japanese playing catch-up empire building, they're a playing ***-for-tat acquisition to preserve a power balance against the incoming Europeans. I can see though that a big bad, Sith/Nazi/Mordor-style antagonist might be needed by some. Perhaps the Emperor's waning health means a waning influence, so the more martial portion of his cabinet is gaining power.

However, I do think making Japan the main antagonist also needs to be done in a way that leaves it open for adventures to be able to take place there or to allow interesting Japanese PC's. You know, nuanced.

Question 64
Who are the major bad guys, in the Far East, if they're not the Japanese?

On the other hand, this line of questioning has opened up some new threads we can follow, so it's been a fruitful discussion.

Originally Posted by tshiggins

As a side-note, I just looked up the term, "Meifumado," and now I think I have a better idea where you're coming from, in terms of Imperial Japan. It's from L5R, right? You're liking steampunk samurai?

It's from Lone Wolf and Cub, the manga and the movie series, as is my username and profile icon. I was reading the manga at the time when I made my account here, if I recall. I don't know about steampunk samurai, but this setting has taken a different direction to what I was expecting when it started. But that makes things interesting.