[Willy]

Originally Posted by dcarson

So we need shells that can maneuver a little and change course just after being fired so you can't get a exact back plot.

That could hide the exact firing position - a bit. The problem is to make it really useful it has to be varied the course before it is detected. That may possible for missiles or drones but not for classical shells. Because counter fire radar has to have a line of sight to get a detection and estimation of firing position, and that´s once the projectile reaches a certain hight. Depending on the terrain it can be a couple of meters in a flat desert, to the moment it flies over that hill there. Most missiles that follow terrain are still started firing upward and go into horizontal flight after reaching enough speed, Sometimes that is a few dozen meters high, the bigger the missile the higher they go before altering course. Therefore they may be detected before even going horizontal.

A missile launchend and flying first just over the tress and following the terrain will hardly be detectable by such a device. It has a reason why combat pilots fly for certain mission typs as close to the ground as possible.

That all goes of course for radar or laser detection and chemical propelled ammo.

Once you change to a EM launcher you can just triangulate the source of the electromagnetic pulse, completely passive.

Same goes for sniper detection devices most use mikes to triangulate the source of the shot, and yes silencers help a bit but you can tell from which building the shot came. The only way to hide a single shot for such systems I know is to hide it in a explosion or a lot of other shots, so the system is either overwhelmed and can´t trace back all the shot´s or the bang goes under in the big boom of said explosion. Of course a smart programmer would give the detection system a library of the sound profile of all available weapons, especially the ones used by the enemy, so the own fire doesn´t clog the processor of the detector.

I was thinking about using compressed gas to make the launch, it avoids the bang, but still is detectable by radar or laser.

Personally if you want a undetected launch and hit a KNOWN fixed postion, I would us a cheap drone, equip it with inertial navigation and a laser / camera to measure the altitude, pack it with explosives and there you go. Nearly undetectable before impact and not to trace. You just need to program in the target´s position and the start position and activate it. That´s it! Such a drone wouldn´d weight much more than a 80 mm mortar shell and can brought by a single foot soldier to the needed starting location, which can for actual drones even farer away than the range of a mortar. Look at the speed and max flight time of a semiprofessional photo drone and you know what I´m talking about.

Even worse the now used systems in cars use quite advanced and cheap components, which are able to tell street signs from advertises or normal cars from say a ambulance. you just need to feed it with data about the own and enemys forces to avoid hitting unwanted targets. So a gadgeteer can easily make it´s own target seeking loitering ammo.