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Old 03-25-2019, 12:03 PM   #8
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: IQ for Fatigue…?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHorse View Post
Well, yeah… but that's exactly the point. IQ should be more important to the Wizard than ST, because that's the faculty that in all other ways affects spell-casting.
1) IQ is already the most important Wizard attribute, in the most important ways (mainly, it lets you know the best spells, and more of them, and disbelieve, and some other things.

2) Just because it's already most important, is not a reason to make it even more important. Well, maybe it is if you like the idea that wizardry is all mental, but not for balance and variety of character design.

3) DX is also very important for wizards, and some people from time to time suggest also moving spell success rolls to IQ (which in fact is more or less what GURPS Magic does), but again I always urge (not insist - go ahead if you really want to, of course) that people consider the effects on the balance of attributes for wizards.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHorse View Post
Even when a Warrior loses ST due to wounds, he doesn't lose its use — for example, he he does not suddenly drop his Great Sword when his ST drops below 16. The Warrior can expend physical energy at full capacity, without limit, yet never feel the slightest hint of Fatigue.
Well the first part mainly just makes sense (being tired doesn't make people drop their weapons) and the second part is a just a matter of detail level and scale (most combats are over in less than a minute - not enough to exhaust a healthy warrior due to exertion - and TFT players tend to want simple system - GURPS has fatigue rules but they still don't realistically apply to rested fighters in a short combat because there's rarely enough time to exhaust oneself that way).


Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHorse View Post
But by contrast a Wizard can very easily kill himself (or at least knock himself unconscious and vulnerable to easy murder) in a matter of mere seconds, just by casting his own spells.

So Warriors are relentless, unstoppable killing machines who never need rest, but Wizards are hothouse orchids, who are good for maybe a half a dozen shots before they keel over in a boneless heap…?

That just doesn't seem rational to me.
I would express "Wizards are hothouse orchids, who are good for maybe a half a dozen shots before they keel over in a boneless heap" more like "Wizards can do many powerful reality-bending and overpowering things that others cannot (many spells can defeat any warrior with one successful casting, or let a group escape an army by blocking a corridor, etc), but there is a heavy cost of doing so in psychic energy, which has to be wisely allocated."

And yes, that is the design of TFT magic. It's been heavily undermined for more experienced wizards by the new staff mana ability, but that takes a lot of experience to build up.

I can understand not being used to that design and/or not liking it and wanting to change it, but that to me is a separate issue from the main one I was trying to draw attention to and get people to consider before thinking shifting spellcasting fatigue to IQ were a good idea, which is more about balance and wizard character design.

If this fragility issue were the main or only concern, I would first suggest considering house rules such as:

A) The very common one where fatigue can cause unconsciousness, but a wizard won't actually die except due to actual damage over ST.

or

B) One might have psychic fatigue not add with damage to result in unconsciousness, but just be a limit on how many spells can be cast. (But one still might not want to base it on IQ, for the reasons of balance and variety I was trying to bring into consideration.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHorse View Post
The Wizard's activity is already much more limited than a Warrior — and the only real difference it would make to count Fatigue against the Wizard's IQ is that he'd be able to cast a few more spells.
I was trying to point out that no, that would not be the only real difference.

As written, even though IQ and DX are much more tempting that ST, there is still a question of how low to go with ST, and a good magical use for wizards with some ST, and a lot of that weight is due to the serious fatigue costs of spells, which creates a nice interesting tension, especially in wizard duels and with not-so-powerful wizard types.

That delicate situation would be smashed by giving mana equal to IQ.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHorse View Post
The Wizard would still have good reason to invest in improving his ST, because that's still how he avoids DYING — but he'd have a meaningful choice to make, between being high-powered but fragile, or magically weaker but physically sturdier.
Only marginally. Being able to survive a little more injury is not very competitive with being able to know more spells and more powerful spells (IQ), or with being able to cast spells successfully (DX). Planning to survive by being able to suffer a bit more injury isn't a good wizard strategy. But with ST also determining how many and how powerful spells you can cast and maintain, ST is an important wizard attribute.

And a ST 12 DX 11 IQ 9 or even ST 13 DX 10 IQ 9 wizard with Aid is a complementary asset to a high-IQ wizard. But not if you make IQ the source of mana.
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