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Old 12-03-2020, 12:50 PM   #22
Join Date: Jul 2015
Default Re: Arm Lock with and without Technical Grappling rules

Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
That's still application of weight advantage in the TG terms; I don't believe it's precluded because of standing.
Okay...I should have been more thorough. I went back and re-read the entire Weight and Grappling section.

I'm not sure that I have this right, so I'm going to work through it on this post and you let me know if it makes sense.

Combatants are PC and NPC. Both have ST 11 and weigh 160 lbs, giving them both a BL of 24.

PC has established a 4 CP grapple on NPC's torso, giving NPC a -2 to ST/DX, giving him an effective ST of 9. PC also succeeded last turn on a Change Posture maneuver to establish a weight advantage over NPC.

It's NPC's Turn and he wants to try and Kick PC. Checking the table in TG, NPC (with effective ST 9 and effective BL 16) has a Grappling Encumbrance Multiple of 10 (160lbs / BL 16), giving him a -7 to any mass-based moves and a -1 to Dodge or to attack/parry with Judo, Karate, fencing skills.

This gives NPC a net of Karate -5 (-2 for kicking, -2 for DX penalty from the grapple, -1 for PC having a weight advantage).

My takeaways from all of that (assuming I got the sequence right) are...
  • Establishing a weight advantage will significantly impact a foe's ability to execute grappling moves, but will have a relatively small impact (if at all) to striking.
  • Brawling doesn't suffer the Encumbrance Penalty from being on the wrong side of a weight advantage, so the brawler can kick with impunity.
  • Without having a significant ST AND Weight advantage over your foe, it just doesn't seem like establishing a weight advantage really has that much influence on weather or not someone you have grappled can kick you.

Again, entirely likely I am missing something key here, but the results just don't even come close to what I have experienced IRL.

Originally Posted by DouglasCole
As far as I know, we specified grappling attacks because so does the box on p. 122 of Martial Arts, with the emphasis in the original
Was there a conscious effort to NOT allow hands-free parries to be used against striking attacks, or was it the simple case of just following the text in a previous book?

If you were to do a TG 2.0 book, would you explicitly allow a Grapple to perform a hands-free parry vs a strike from a foe that he was grappling? Would your answer change if it's a lock instead of a simple grapple?

Originally Posted by DouglasCole
For me, this is best represented by *spending control points* to interfere with a foe's attack. That's always allowed, IIRC. We use pain compliance from a joint lock to keep foes off balance so they can't kick or punch as well, usually by walking them around.
Essentially, I think what you and I do in our RL training is the same thing...or at least has the same net effect. A guy faced with walking or falling will generally choose to walk...and will likely not even choose but do it on instinct. And a guy who is walking is generally too busy with his legs to throw a kick.

In our case, it's just making a foe weight a single leg, but it all nets out to "foe CAN'T attempt a kick without falling down".
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