Interesting discussion for cestus details.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phiwum
So, I began by thinking about the cestus as being strictly worse than a dagger (can't be thrown, but can't be dropped).
But then I saw on ITL 113 that a single cestus is "treated exactly like a main-gauche". Now, that surprised me, since a main-gauche can block a hit, though has a -1DX penalty to do so. In addition, it's easy to strike with both cesti if wearing two.
So, let me see if I understand the cestus now:
(1) Melee damage is 1d-1, while HTH damage is bare hands damage + 3, all just like a dagger (or main-gauche).
(2) Cannot be dropped, voluntarily or otherwise.
(3) Two cesti can both strike in the same turn at DX -3. I assume that this is in both melee *and* HTH, the latter of which would make a cestus quite good.
(4) If the single cestus is just like a main-gauche, then that would give the following effects:
(a) Stops 1 hit.
(b) -1 adjDX. [1]
(c) Can be used as second attack for -4 DX.
My first question is whether I missed anything in this description.
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From my recent reading on this, I concur. You covered 4(a) later as a house rules thing. I'm not really on board with it stopping one hit but the main gauche comparison is a strong argument for that.
You cover 4(c) later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phiwum
My second question is whether it makes sense for a cestus to do main-gauche damage in melee (1d-1). The table says that the damage is ST-dependent, so I may be misreading this, but it's not clear what the damage should be. Is it the same as HTH damage?
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In my opinion, if a cestus wearer is in an HTH "grapple", the cestus is still on their hand and still modifies the HTH damage. now, since ITL states that one cannot hold any other weapon in a hand with a cestus, the cestus wearer couldn't use that hand for gripping anything. Their ability to wrestle, grab, etc. during HTH would be compromised.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phiwum
The third question has to do with left-hand attacks. A main-gauche as a second attack is at -4 DX. When wearing two cesti, one can attack with both at -3 DX for each. Can one opt to attack with the righthand cestus at no penalty and the lefthand cestus at DX -4? The latter always produces better expected damage, except at adjDX 18 or 19, if I did the calculations correctly.
I'm guessing that one cannot opt to do one normal attack and one attack with -4 modifier, but the rules aren't quite explicit. The fact that a single cestus is just like a main-gauche suggests that two cesti are different than a main-gauche (but do I still get the 1 blocked hit benefit with two cesti?).
Thanks.
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I concur that this difference isn't specifically called out, as far as I can tell. Perhaps, the GM can house rule it either way or require the player to declare whether they are boxing or making a second swing.
ITL describes the Roman use of cesti on both hands in a manner consistent with boxing at a -3DX for both attacks. I would say that making the player declare which tactic is being used up front would have to be closely enforced. Or, only give them this flexibility between the two options based upon their skill sets. A player with cestus mastery, teo weapons, and/or various levels of Unarmed Combat could be given the option as opposed to requiring boxing at a -3DX for both attacks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phiwum
[1] I've houseruled that the stopping of 1 hit is optional -- this is important for fencers, say -- and the -1 DX penalty applies only when the main-gauche is being used for armor. I suppose the same would apply to the lefthand cestus.
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Like I said earlier, I'm not big on this but if house rules are consistent, so be it. There is a strong argument for it.