Steve Jackson Games Forums - View Single Post - DFRPG questions: Discrepancy/errata (?) edition

beaushinkle · 01-08-2023, 03:15 PM

TL;DR
Unkillable (Total) in DFRPG is missing a sentence that says "You regain consciousness once you have positive HP." from Gurps Basic.

Reasoning

Discovered this while running my players through a Troll Lair.

Trolls have Recovery, Regeneration (2HP/s), and Unkillable (Total; Achillies Heel, burn or cor).

The definition of Unkillable(Total) on DFM12 doesn't mention anything about (un)consciousness.

This means that in DFRPG if a Troll goes to negative HP, and then fails a HT roll (26% every second), once it heals to positive HP, it doesn't wake up until 15 seconds have passed since it was unconscious (DFE62 gives that as 15 minutes, Recovery, DFA52 changes minutes to seconds).

15 seconds is usually *well more* than enough time for delvers to finish off the troll's friends and then circle back to the troll to burn the body.

This is notable for three reasons:

It doesn't match Gurps Basic
It doesn't match the flavor text of trolls
It doesn't match genre tropes

In Gurps Basic, Unkillable 3 (which is what Unkillable (Total) copy+pastes from), has a very important line:

"You regain consciousness once you have positive HP."

So the GURPS version of Unkillable (which many monster entries use, and their advantage list is copied directly from the Gurps DF line of monsters) is different. Porting over Unkillable monsters from DF to DFRPG nerfs them (presumably unintentionally).

Flavor Text
DFM57 states "Only fire or acid can kill trolls (common knowledge that requires no roll to recall), so they fear nothing – including such attacks. Many a troll sports scars from acid or fire wielded by some now-dead foe!"

Given that trolls fall unconscious easily (only 12 HT) and don't heal fast enough to outpace damage, regular weapons are very dangerous to Trolls. A pack of Trolls could definitely all be felled with mundane damage, kept dead with mundane damage, and then burned to death with rudimentary fire damage before they raise from consciousness. They'd have died without ever knowing that their foes had access to fire or acid (which is exactly what happened in my game).

Genre Tropes
This model of Troll Recovery doesn't create whack-a-mole Troll encounters where their regeneration is a big, relevant part of the battle (like it is in B/X, video games like baldur's gate/icewind dale, or more modern RPGs).

01-08-2023, 03:15 PM	#28
beaushinkle Join Date: Jan 2022	Re: DFRPG questions: Discrepancy/errata (?) edition TL;DR Unkillable (Total) in DFRPG is missing a sentence that says "You regain consciousness once you have positive HP." from Gurps Basic. Reasoning Discovered this while running my players through a Troll Lair. Trolls have Recovery, Regeneration (2HP/s), and Unkillable (Total; Achillies Heel, burn or cor). The definition of Unkillable(Total) on DFM12 doesn't mention anything about (un)consciousness. This means that in DFRPG if a Troll goes to negative HP, and then fails a HT roll (26% every second), once it heals to positive HP, it doesn't wake up until 15 seconds have passed since it was unconscious (DFE62 gives that as 15 minutes, Recovery, DFA52 changes minutes to seconds). 15 seconds is usually well more than enough time for delvers to finish off the troll's friends and then circle back to the troll to burn the body. This is notable for three reasons: It doesn't match Gurps Basic It doesn't match the flavor text of trolls It doesn't match genre tropes In Gurps Basic, Unkillable 3 (which is what Unkillable (Total) copy+pastes from), has a very important line: "You regain consciousness once you have positive HP." So the GURPS version of Unkillable (which many monster entries use, and their advantage list is copied directly from the Gurps DF line of monsters) is different. Porting over Unkillable monsters from DF to DFRPG nerfs them (presumably unintentionally). Flavor Text DFM57 states "Only fire or acid can kill trolls (common knowledge that requires no roll to recall), so they fear nothing – including such attacks. Many a troll sports scars from acid or fire wielded by some now-dead foe!" Given that trolls fall unconscious easily (only 12 HT) and don't heal fast enough to outpace damage, regular weapons are very dangerous to Trolls. A pack of Trolls could definitely all be felled with mundane damage, kept dead with mundane damage, and then burned to death with rudimentary fire damage before they raise from consciousness. They'd have died without ever knowing that their foes had access to fire or acid (which is exactly what happened in my game). Genre Tropes This model of Troll Recovery doesn't create whack-a-mole Troll encounters where their regeneration is a big, relevant part of the battle (like it is in B/X, video games like baldur's gate/icewind dale, or more modern RPGs).