[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by Skarg

I like breaking up Woodsman and Naturalist into knowledge of specific environments and not others. I don't think including talents like Climbing, Swimming, Boating, and Alertness into talents about environmental knowledge, makes sense.

There's definitely a spectrum, from talents that can easily be folded into the environments like Woodsman and those which really need to be kept separate. Some of my choices could definitely be changed.

I think they need to be separate, because clearly some people have lots of knowledge and survival ability in forest or riparian or urban or other areas without actually climbing trees or buildings or swimming or crewing boats.

So we end up asking how plausible the following characters are:

• Grew up in the forest, doesn't know how to climb a tree. I would say: not very likely. So I'm comfortable with Climbing being in Forest.
• Grew up in an urban environment, doesn't know how to get in a third storey window. I would say extremely likely, so yes, I oopsed there, Climbing shouldn't be part of urban.
• Grew up on the river, or at sea, doesn't know how to swim. I would say highly campaign-dependent. In Mediaeval Europe very likely, in Polynesia really weird. I'll have to modify for that.
• Grew up on the river or at sea, uncomfortable in a boat, doesn't know how to use it and always in danger of tipping it over like a landlubber. I would say quite unlikely, so I'm OK with Sea and River including Boating.
• Grew up at sea, doesn't know how to sail a ship. I would say um. It really depends what the Sea talent represents. Does someone who collects oysters on rocks have it? I need to think about this.

There are also scholar-types who may have useful knowledge but no physical abilities.

I think these characters don't have the environmental talents, which are supposed to represent practical skills. Can you give an example of a problematic concept?

And there are certainly people who can climb and swim or be alert but don't have any other outdoor survival expertise I don't see a value in removing those sorts of talents.

For climb and swim I mostly agree and I haven't. Alertness I'm much happier to let go, I'm not sure it represents anything much in fiction. A character who doesn't know the forest but is good at spotting things in a forest because she's just good at spotting things? Not sure I believe it.

If someone does see a value in having a package talent that includes all related physical abilities for an environment, that could be added without the ability to only learn the knowledge, or to learn Swimming. If the goal is to make character sheets short as possible (?), you could note it as Desert +, or something.

I don't understand what you mean by this.