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Old 09-17-2021, 01:34 PM   #3
Kallatari
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Default Re: Technical Grappling - Stuck in the Middle of a Tug-Of-War

Hi Doug :)

For the record, I know I said it before, but sometimes it's good to hear again: I love TG, and once you are familiar with it, I find it actually plays well and fairly quickly. I do use the Fantastic Dungeon Grappling for the table relating to the effects of CP on a victim (as opposed to the TG method), but otherwise continue to use the rules in TG. Once you've wrapped your brain around it, it's very simple mechanics -> Grappling does CP in damage, you have a "grappling damage table" that indicates the resulting penalties. Trying to force your victim to move in a certain way are contests of ST, and you can spend CP to get bonuses.

If you recall during the playtest, I loved throwing in the really extreme cases just to see how it would work, and I find it handled it all well. But despite all the weird edge cases I played around with, I still occasionally stumble upon something that's outside the usual box that even I didn't think of before because it's unlikely to come up (but that in all parts of GURPS, not just TG).

And for the first time since TG came out, I actually have a PC in one of my campaigns who specializes in the grappling and pretty much only uses grappling. It's a monk martial artists in a fantasy game with a vow not to use weapons, and they've started fighting enemies that he can no longer harm with simple punches and kicks (without doing Power Blow, etc., which are limited by FP). So he just grapples as many enemies as he can (one in each arm, one with a leg, etc.), throws them around to control the battlefield, and pins them down for his allies to finish off with their magical weapons. The player is having a blast with it.

I know I've told you this before, but TG was a great product, as are the improved simplifications brought in by Fantastic Dungeon Grappling. Maybe not perfect - nothing is - but still great. So don't feel bad about anything that may have not been included. Keeping it simple and fast is an issue of familiarity (and Fantastic Dungeon Grappling gives the even faster method).


Anyway, as to your answers to my questions, I concur with what you have for obtaining the end results, and mostly did it that way in play. I'm just trying to think of the additional implications of those actions to the person in the middle. For example, if the rescuer pulls on the victim in the web enough to remove 6 CP of the web's grapple, what does that do to the victim in the web? I would think being pulled - even by an ally helping - would at least give a penalty to their actions. So what is that penalty?

- Should the victim receive a temporary penalty to his actions based on those 6 CP that "travelled through him"? Therefore every turn the penalty is different based on the CP roll of the rescuer.

- Should the rescuer have to first grapple the victim in the web for a number of CP, which determines the penalty the victim gets? To make it a worthwhile having a better grip (rather than trying to minimize the penalty you are imposing on your ally), the maximum amount of CP he can remove from the web-grapple in a single pull cannot exceed his own grip on the victim.

- Is there a point where the victim in the middle suffers damage from being pulled on both sides? With the princess example, on the game map the princess is bouncing back and forth between two hexes, but in reality it more likely she's standing between the two hexes with arms pulled each way. At what point does the tug of war indirectly turn into a Wrench (Arm) - especially if supernaturally high ST scores are involved.
I realize this is a bit overkill in details for a game (see, there can be more complicated than Technical Grappling ;) ). For my in-game problem I simply made a GM decision (puller's CP reduce web's grapple) and we moved on, so it's not a pressing issue for me, but I am curious about what else I could have done, and what the impacts might have been (could the rescuer have harmed the victim trapped in the web by trying?). So basically, this is more of a thought exercise/discussion to see what could have happened/how else it could have been done rather than something I need an immediate solution to.
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