Steve Jackson Games Forums - Can a Thief fight a Lawyer

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Nobu	10-11-2012 09:14 AM

Can a Thief fight a Lawyer

The card says the Lawyer will not attack the Thief, and the Thief may trade 2 treasure cards for 2 new ones. Does the Thief still have the option of fighting the Lawyer, so that he can gain the level and 2 new treasure cards?

SmokeRulz

10-11-2012 11:38 AM

Re: Can a Thief fight a Lawyer

Of course you can. You can fight it normally. If you happen to be a very underpowered Thief, however, the card simply provides a comical way out of the fight.

Mister Ed

10-11-2012 12:09 PM

Re: Can a Thief fight a Lawyer

Not according to MunchkinMan in this post:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...02&postcount=7

He says a Thief CANNOT fight a Lawyer, just like a female cannot fight an Amazon.

Clipper

10-11-2012 03:21 PM

Re: Can a Thief fight a Lawyer

Yeah, the "instead" in this case is that instead of the Lawyer just walking away, he can give you some Treasure if you discard cards first before he walks away.

DragonRider13

11-19-2012 07:31 AM

Re: Can a Thief fight a Lawyer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clipper (Post 1457157)

Yeah, the "instead" in this case is that instead of the Lawyer just walking away, he can give you some Treasure if you discard cards first before he walks away.

The thief might still be able to attack the Lawyers.

MunchkinMan

11-19-2012 08:09 AM

Re: Can a Thief fight a Lawyer

No, a Thief may not fight a Lawyer. And, a link was given to where that answer was already given.

fluff

11-24-2012 10:03 AM

Re: Can a Thief fight a Lawyer

Regarding thieves vs. lawyers, if the lawyer leaves the room without fighting the thief, can the thief still loot the room? Supposing that the thief has rejected the "exchange 2 Treasure cards in hand for 2 new Treasure cards" deal.

Bampop

11-24-2012 10:42 AM

Re: Can a Thief fight a Lawyer

I'm pretty sure you can only Loot if you didn't find a Monster, or if the card tells you you can, so I'd guess not. You were in a combat, it's just that the thief left.

Enzzo

11-24-2012 12:01 PM

Re: Can a Thief fight a Lawyer

From the rules:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rules

(2) Look For Trouble: If you did NOT draw a monster when you first opened the door, you now have the option of playing a monster (if you have one)from your hand and fighting it, just as if you had found it when you kicked open the door. Don’t play a monster you can’t handle, unless you’re sure you can count on getting help!
(3) Loot The Room: If you did not find a monster by kicking open the door and you did not Look For Trouble, you loot the room . . . draw a second card from the Door deck, face down, and place it in your hand. If you met a monster but ran away, you don’t get to loot the room.

Since you did find a monster when you kicked down the door, you may not Look For Trouble or Loot The Room. Whether you fought it, traded treasures with it, ran away, or whatever, is irrelevant :)

tremorlaine

11-24-2012 03:02 PM

Re: Can a Thief fight a Lawyer

Is it possible to wander in a monster and still take advantage of the Lawyer's exchange after that monster is defeated? Or can a player do the exchange then wander in a new monster?

Clipper

11-24-2012 08:12 PM

Re: Can a Thief fight a Lawyer

You would not be able to fight the other monster and then make the deal afterwards. The Lawyers don't say they end the combat, so you can still wander in a new monster after the Lawyers leave, so your second option is OK.

MunchkinMan confirmed that in the post that was linked earlier:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan (Post 1239002)

If the Lawyer was the only Monster, then combat is over, unless someone wants to add a new Monster by playing a Monster from their hand with Wandering Monster. Regardless, the Thief will always be allowed to choose to make that "deal" before combat can continue.

If you do make the deal, you get your Treasures before fighting the other monster (one of the very few cases where this occurs), but you can't equip any of them before fighting the monster about to be wandered in.

Andrew Hackard

11-24-2012 09:46 PM

Re: Can a Thief fight a Lawyer

I'm going to hold that final thought until Erik and I can talk it over. I would prefer NEVER to have exceptions to the "you must defeat the monsters to get any rewards" rule, and unless I hear a compelling argument to the contrary, that's the way I'm going to rule here -- in a multi-monster combat, the Lawyer's Treasure gets left on the ground if the munchkins have to Run Away.

Clipper

11-25-2012 04:02 AM

Re: Can a Thief fight a Lawyer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard (Post 1481504)

I guess I should have posted the link in the thread (I didn't have time to find it), but MunchkinMan already ruled on that one, which is why I didn't qualify it with an opinion. He said that as it was an effect that doesn't involve a monster just giving you Treasure or leaving it behind, then it happens immediately.

And I just found the post where he said it, now it's been called out:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan (Post 1346994)

This is not a reward, but a Monster effect. The Thief may discard his Treasure cards and draw new ones while in combat.

As I said above, the Thief discards his cards and draws the new cards immediately. Once the Thief has accomplished this, Lawyer is discarded.

Should we take your statement as overruling MM's response, or does it seem a valid enough explanation for now?

Andrew Hackard

11-25-2012 05:22 AM

Re: Can a Thief fight a Lawyer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clipper (Post 1481593)

I guess I should have posted the link in the thread (I didn't have time to find it), but MunchkinMan already ruled on that one, which is why I didn't qualify it with an opinion.

I have no quarrels with what you wrote, based on the information on the ground at the time.

Until I get the chance to talk about this with Erik and the Brain Trust, my statement should be taken as opinion, not fiat -- but it's opinion backed by what Steve and I intended when we revised the rules in 2010.

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