[Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Hello fellow gurpsers, I'm looking for tips on designing a power.

Now first of all, by fetish I mean the attribution of power to an inanimate object, nothing else. That fetish can then be handed to someone, and through the fetish, the person acquires a certain advantage.

Pricing a fetish in play is simple enough. Pick an advantage, slap some gadget limitations on it and you're done. That's not what I'm looking for.

I'm looking for the ability to make fetishes in game. In effect, it's a kind of enchanting ability. I'm aware this can be done using the magic rules, but our group stopped using those rules because we find them unbalanced. In the campaign to start soon, we will be using powers. I have read a lot about them in the basic set, psi powers and powers but I'm still a novice user.

This is what I have in mind. A PC wants to be able to imbue small items (fetishes) with spiritual power. In game terms, this would be tying an advantage to an item, undefinitely (extended duration, permanent) until something happens that destroys the fetish. Once I have a standard format, multiple versions could be bought using the rules for alternative abilities.

I have worked out a draft, but I'm not entirely happy about it. Looking for tips and corrections, or even an entire makeover. This is the draft:

Enchant fetish of spirit protection (+60%)
affliction 1 (advantage: +3 resistance to mental spirit attacks, adds to IQ or Will to resist mental attacks by spirits, considered a very common item, +100; PM spirit, the ability works by binding minor spirits to the item, -25%; accessibility, only on small items made by the user, -50%; contact agent, the item must be worn against bare skin by the user, -30%; costs fatigue, 3FP payed by the maker at the moment of creation, -15%; extended duration, permanent, effect is dispelled and fetish destroyed when failing a resistance roll against a mental spirit attack, +150%; limited use, the user can only enchant one fetish per day, -40%; preparation required, the user performs a 10-minute ceremony to make the item, -30%) [16]
Description: once per day, the PC can enchant a small item he made himself and then hand that item to someone else. The item will protect that user against mental spirit attacks until he fails a resistance roll against such an attack.

I would also like to tie a skill to this ability, like for psionic powers. Right now I was thinking enchant fetish (Will/H). Techniques etc would be nice but I haven 't yet thought about possibilities.

Now I can't pinpoint exact problems, but this power just doesn't seem right. There are probably multiple problems... Thoughts?

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Gadgeteers are typically the way you make new Gadgets. Using the invention rules, probably. I think there's something in Thaumatology for handling that, or in Supers, I'm not sure which.

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Affliction is probably the best way to go here but you might look at the Invention and Gadgeter rules to at least consider them.

Trigger is good for one shot items.
For long term items though your afflicting a person not an object in most cases and here is where your going to run into trouble.
If you afflict an object with a power that object has the power. Not whomever is carrying it.
For a few powers it wont matter but for most it will not do what you want.
What my suggestion for that is to add Affliction (Compartmentalized Mind-Controls). This gives the holder a way to control the object so that they can then use the power. And it will be a cheap additional Affliction.

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Thanks for the replies. They set to me to thinking about new approaches.
I don't think either of the options suits what I really have in mind. Gadgeteer is just too vague and might lead to problems concerning munchkin control, while 'compartmentalized mind - controls' seems overly complicated for what I had in mind and is not really cheap (+250% cost as an afflicted enhancement).

And that's just the lesson I needed to realize that the first draft is way too complicated.

Instead of trying to afflict an item to be transferred to another person, the logical thing to do is to directly afflict the target person with malediction (to waive the resistance roll) and an advantage limited by gadget limitations (breakable, can be stolen). Most other stats of the draft are ok (extended duration etc), except for contact agent, that should be replaced by melee attack reach C (or is that an abusive -30%, since the power is useless in combat anyway?) and the accessibility that should be rephrased to 'requires a small self-made item'.

I think this looks better. Any thoughts?

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

An easier way to do it...

Making something does not require a power. It requires a skill and time.

The skill is probably either Thaumatology or Ritual Magic (Specialty), whichever is appropriate for the setting.

The time is actually not hard to figure out...figure out how many character points (including gadget limitations) that the fetish is worth, then multiply that by 200 hours. Normally, that gets broken up into 8-hour days (25 days per character point) but one could probably roll vs. HT to work longer days.

At the end of the process, roll vs. skill to fashion the fetish properly. On a success, you have your fetish; on a failure, you have wasted the time and effort and have to start over.

I hope this helps.

Mark

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Statting a magic item is easy, but statting a power to make one is not straightforward. I'm hoping that a future Power Ups installment will cover powers-based enchantment, be it psychic crystals or holy relics in addition to magic-as-powers. In the meantime, you can model it with Afflict Affliction; that is, you Afflict the object with the power to Afflict a trait on its weilder. Ugh. There are ally-based approaches too. Reversing the training rule as Mgellis suggested is a good start, but I've wasted plenty of brain cycles on that path to no conclusion. Good luck. -GEF

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

It's just like Meditative Magic, what's the issue? It seems to work fine for me.

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

I would prefer just having you spend points on your objects as gadgets. Not sure why you are saying that won't work for you. Rather have your points and spend them too? :D

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

So, you spend 4000hr on Karate and get skill +5. I spend it on power-based enchantment and get a 20pt gadget (with about 30-35 points of base traits). Now I sell the gadget to some other dude. I'm down 20 points, and he has to spend 20 points on the gadget. If you go the point-debt route, he gets stupid (effectively Cannot Learn) until he pays off the debt. That's a solution but a clunky one, like every other I've envisioned.

Note that one-use items are easy: Just buy a power with Triggered Delay; the client triggers his use of that power by drinking the potion, reading the scroll, breaking the glass, or pressing the button.

GEF

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

No more than if you worked for those 4000 hours making a mundane item and sold it. Are craftsmen being cheated out of their due character points every time they make something? For that matter is everybody cheated out of them whenever they work, enjoy entertainment, or do anything besides sleep or train? What about when they trade points for money?
Why? He a) paid money for it and b) acquired it in play.

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Thanks for the quote. I stand corrected. There are still a few steps to take in this approach:

1) Determine the powercrafting skill(s).

2) Determine modifiers to the skill roll, like a penalty for working fast and a bonus for good raw materials.

3) Determine the requirements to use them in certain ways, frex, must have the power to be placed in the item, or must work with someone who does, or must have magical ingredients.

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

I have to agree with Sir Pudding on the issue about spending character points. I never intended to have PC's spend points to make fetishes. It just doesn't suit the setting. On the other hand, Gef does have a point that the rules are not very clear on the subject of crafting 'magic' items using powers.

So I need to work my way around this. This is what I intend to do.

One of the PC's is some kind of shaman binding protection spirits to items permanently (extended duration, permanent). That is, until the item fails to protect the wearer, in which case the item breaks (=condition for extended duration, permanent, see B105 where it also specifies that these rules can lead to abuse). These fetishes are intended to be handed to fellow group members or just te be sold. To control this, I implement the limitations 'only usable once per day' and 'accessibility: only well-crafted, self-made items can be empowered'. These seem like reasonable limitations to avoid things getting out of hand. And if they do, well, spirits are fickle beings, (reflected by the spirit PM) and can decide to withdraw their support to the shaman.

Now, how to simulate this? The easiest way to implement such a power is to work out the point cost of the fetish, and then insert that cost converted to a percentage as an afflicted advantage.
How to stat a fetish? It is an advantage, limited by:
- breakable, DR 4 (wood, bone...), cannot be repaired, SM-8 (about 10 cm), total -35%
- can be stolen, by stealth or trickery, -20%
- terminal condition, common knowledge in the setting (a failed resistance roll destroys the item), -20% (note: this terminal condition will be different for fetishes with other advantages, and the terminal condition might not always be common knowledge, so this figure may vary)
These modifiers add up to -75%, to be applied to the cost of the advantage of the fetish. A 10-point advantage as a fetish costs 2.5 points, a 40-point one costs 10 points. Don't round fractions yet, we will use the unrounded result in our next formula (respectively +25% and +100% for these two examples).

The next formula is the creation of the fetish:
affliction 1 (insert fetish cost here, in %; malediction, no resistance roll, +100%; PM spirit, the ability works by binding minor spirits to the item, -25%; accessibility, requires a small, well-crafted, self-made item, -40%; costs fatigue, 3FP payed by the maker at the moment of creation, -15%; extended duration, permanent, +150%; limited use, the user can only enchant one fetish per day, -40%; preparation required, the user performs a 10-minute ritual to empower the item, -30%). Total cost: +100% + cost of the fetish, where 1 point equals 10%. For our examples, that would be +125% and +200% respectively, making for a [23]-point and a [30]-point power.

I haven't figured out yet how I would let the skill 'create fetish' (Will/H) function in the process, but I'll work something out.

Thank you for reading this far :-)
I think this is an acceptable and more or less adequately-priced power. Of course, it would have to be bought separately for each type of fetish, probably as an alternative ability (Powers, p11) and of course sharing the same 24-hour cooldown.

Some stuff I did is not stated in the RAW, but is not explicitly forbidden either. Most of all, I'm wondering what you think about the idea of using the modified advantage cost in the affliction formula. Does this break any rules, or does it seem more or less correct? Or did I make some other horrible mistake?

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

The enhancement value is based on the net cost of the Advantage, not the Gross cost. You absolutely use the modified value. No Afflicting your friends with Cosmic Hardened Forcefield Area Effect Affects Others DR for cheap!

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Hm, I'm not sure. Of course I understand my formula is prone to abuse. After all, advantages are given to friends for a discount, and the higher the cost of the basic advantage, the higher the discount. That's why it would need careful monitoring by the GM.
But I don't really see the abuse about the addition of cosmic and other enhancements, because these would of course boost the cost of the fetish accordingly. For example, with cosmic, the fetish would cost +225% (+300% cosmic and -75% from the fetish limitations), turning a 10-point advantage into a 32.5-point fetish, hence +325% in the affliction formula.

As long as the rules remain unclear on the subject, this point will remain open to discussion.

Anyway,supposing you're correct and I should use full cost of the advantage in the formula (I find the RAW quite unclear on the subject), is the rest of the formula correct?
Specifically:
- is the extended duration (permanent) good enough to make the advantage permanent for the target until the terminal condition is triggered, instead of making the afflicted advantage one-shot or a one-minute use (as stated on B36)?
- is the accessibility limitation (requires a small well-crafted, self-made item) appropriate to simulate the fact that the advantage is only conferred to the target through an item (specifically dedicated to this one person), or would an other modifier be more appropriate?

Thank you so much for your input, this is not an easy problem to solve on my own.

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

A lot of my players have wanted to do something similar in games I've run (Mostly because a lot of my players were fans of the old Runequest system and its spirit magic).

Here are a few ways we've done it (most of these are off the top of my head without actually having character sheets in front of me, and I modified the first one for how you wanted it to work).

Modular Abilities: Spirit Trapping 20 (Useless Under Stress, -60%; Costs Fatigue, +3, -15%; Limited Use, 1/day, -40%; Physical and Mental, +100%; Requires Will Roll, -5%; PM: Spirit, -25%; Trait Limited: Afflictions with Gadget Limitations, -50%) [18 points]

So this would allow the character do create any type of 10 point affliction or less by first going into the spirit realm and bringing back a spirit to put in the fetish.

Keep in mind that all of the gadget limitations, and the permanent enhancement will need to go on the Affliction you buy with the modular points, not on the above modular advantage itself!

So for example this Shaman could create a fetish to protect from hostile magic:

Affliction 1 (Advantage: Magic Resistance 1, +20%; Permanent, Dispelled when fails to protect, +150% Gadget, Can Be Stolen, -30%; Gadget: Breakable, DR 2, Cannot Repair, -35%; Gadget: Unique, -25%; Contact Agent, -30%) [15 points]

My players used the above but added large Costs Fatigue limitations to them to offset the Advantage Enhancement on the Affliction. This made it a lot more like the standard GURPS magic.

A more powerful version is letting the character summon spirits as allies which he puts into the fetishes.

Modular Abilities: Spirit Trapping 20 (Useless Under Stress, -60%; Physical Only, +50%; PM: Spirit, -25%; Trait Limited: Afflictions with the Advantage: Allies Enhancement, -50%) [18 points]

You'd then use it for something like:

Affliction 1 (Advantage: Unwilling Constant Minion Ally, 100% of starting points, +100%; Permanent, Dispelled when spirit is defeated or destroyed, +150%; Costs Fatigue, +6, -30%; Gadget, Can Be Stolen, -30%; Gadget: Breakable, DR 2, Cannot Repair, -35%; Gadget: Unique, -25%; Contact Agent, -30%) [20 points]

The spirit itself could then have its own affliction to give you powers or abilities, etc.

One player of mine had his own magic system using this sort of method. It went something like:

Modular Abilities: Spirit Trapping 1 to 8 points (Useless Under Stress, -60%; Physical Only, +50%; PM: Spirit, -25%; Trait Limited: Favors with Gadget Limitations, -50%) [2 to 8 points each]

It was a very powerful form of magic IMO. He could summon a spirit and bind it into one of his modular slots. Each spirit could then be used once to perform some action for him (as his Favor). And you can get a spirit with 150% of your points, Special Abilities and No Frequency of Appearance roll for only 8 points!

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Just a quick reply now, because I need to leave for the rest of the day.
I really loved the Runequest old rules for spirit magic and on first reading, your suggestions look great!

I have time tonight to look into it in detail. I'll post a longer reply then.

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

I've had more time to study everything and I must say, I love it. It's even better than what I had in mind: it suits the flavour of the setting perfectly, and it's both more flexible and cheaper than what I 'd imagined.

I will be using your first version, the core of the formula being the modular ability spirit trapping (cost: 6 per slot + 4 per point) modified by physical and mental, trait limited (afflictions with gadget limitations) and the useless under stress limitation. The other limitations can be picked more freely by the PC.

The two other versions are obviously more powerful and hence more difficult to control. I had already decided not to use spirits as allies some time ago, and the favour idea is outright scary: so much power for so cheap. So I'll not implement those for the time being, but I'll definitely keep them in mind for later use, who knows?

Thank you for introducing me to the modular abilities power, I had never really looked into it in so much detail. Up till now, I had always discarded it as too abstract and too powerful. But I'm starting to see it's possibilities now. Cheers!

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

I'm not even sure what you're arguing about, to be honest. I thought I did, but you then said you think I'm wrong and then provided an example that seemed to be agreeing with me. So I'm going to write up an example of what I'm talking about and see if it helps clarify what I mean.

Alice is a wizard with an armor spell: she can give people magical DR.

She gives people DR 6 (equivalent of plate armour) as a full-body force-field that protects them with no chinks in it, even over the eyes, and protects all their equipment.

Bob is a demon: he has a forcefield with exactly the effects of Alice's armor spell, all the time.

Bob's advantage is Damage Resistance 6 (Forcefield, +20%). DR 6 is 30 points, DR 6 with Forcefield is 36 points. Bob pays [36] points.

Alice has Affliction with the Advantage enhancement and the Malediction enhancement (level 1), and the Magical limitation. Malediction 1 is +100%, Magical is -10%. Since Alice afflicts the same advantage that Bob has, her Advantage enhancement is +360%. Base cost for Affliction is 10 points, but with all the enhancements Alices "Afflict Magical Forcefield" spell costs [55] points.

If Charles was a Djinn who had the ability to grant people knowledge of Alice's Afflict Magical Forcefield spell, he'd use the 55 point cost to calculate the cost of his Advantage enhancement.

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Compare Dave the Druid, who has a "Barkskin" spell that gives the target DR 6 with the Tough Skin limitation (an [18] point advantage).

Dave has Affliction with the Advantage enhancement and the Malediction enhancement (level 1), and the Magical limitation. Malediction 1 is +100%, Magical is -10%. Since Dave afflicts DR with Tough Skin, his Advantage enhancement is +180%. Base cost for Affliction is 10 points, but with all the enhancements Dave's "Afflict Barkskin" spell costs [37] points.

Dave's spell isn't as good as Alices, and costs Dave less points because of that.

EDIT: Are you perhaps coming from Hero System? GURPS doesn't have the same sort of Active Points distinction that Hero does, that might be throwing you off.

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Sorry Bruno, what I meant to say is that I was not sure I understood you correctly. English is not my native language and I was a bit confused by your answer, that's why I worked out a counterexample. With your examples now I can see clealy what you mean.

And we agree. The modified advantage cost must be used in the affliction formula. I just can't remember if or where I read that in the RAW. That's why I asked for someone to confirm. So thanks and sorry for the mixup :)

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

No problem, glad I could help sort it out :)

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Modular abilities can enhance afflictions or other advantages. A cool trick is to have the advantage you want, and then use MA to enhance it.

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Would you care to explain this one?

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

From modular abilities

"You may rearrange these points to add a skill (spell, technique, etc.) or mental advantage temporarily – or to improve such a trait, if you already have it."

So say I have modular abilities cosmic (physical +50%) 30 and affliction. I could use my 30 points of modular abilities to improve affliction to affliction (heart attack +30%)

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Basic Set, page 71 (emphasis mine):
Let's go back to Alice. Alice still has her Afflict Magical Forcefield power. But now she also has 6 levels of Super Memorization Modular Ability (she reads new spells from spell books) for [23] points. Alice has two spellbooks: one is used by demons to increase their natural protection, the other is used by wizards to harden the magical shield created by Afflict Magical Forcefield.

The first book contains the formula for +1 DR (Forcefield, +20%) [6] but is only useable by demons. Alice can't use it, but if Bob had the same Modular Ability, Bob could use it to add one level to his existing DR.

The second book contains the formula for upgrading the Advantage modifier on Afflict Magical Forcefield - it adds Hardened, +20% to the DR advantage afflicted. The new advantage is DR 6 (Hardened, +20%; Force Field, +20%) and would cost [42] points. This means the Advantage enhancement is now +420%, and the final cost of Afflict Magical Forcefield (Hardened) is [61] points.

In both cases, the point difference is 6 points, so it only takes 6 levels of Modular Ability to add one or the other. Alice can't use the first book, but she can use the second.

You may improve an ability any way you have enough points for, as long as a limitation or restriction on your Modular Ability doesn't prevent you from doing so.

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Ok thank you both, I understand :-)
A very interesting ability indeed, and one to monitor carefully as GM!

Re: [Powers] how to make a fetish
 

Yup, especially with buffing afflictions. "I give the party +4 striking strength, +4 DR, combat reflexes, talent: X, +1 enhanced defense, acute senses (all of them) +10, luck, serendipity ... Alright then, that was totally worth the 150 points."