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-   -   [Psionic Powers] Do inanimate targets resist Malediction with HT or Will? (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=92467)

Refplace 06-07-2012 08:23 AM

Re: [Psionic Powers] Do inanimate targets resist Malediction with HT or Will?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh (Post 1388616)
All of them? I'm pretty sure Psionics enjoy some of the special benefits that some other Powers don't.

The gestalt thing was what I replied to and technically any Power the GM feels is appropriate is ok to form one.
The main criteria being they have to have the same power source (which Psionics do) though even that can be waived for powers with a similar focus (say Fire powers) but different source (say a Super and magic).
This is described under Stunts, combing powers (Powers p170 to 172)

As for the argument that changing resist by Will to resist by HT should be an enhancement or cost more I do not dispute the argument.
However some might argue (and indeed have on these forums
) that resist by Will means targets with no Will are immune. If that stance is taken then a good case for a 0 point trade off exists.

Refplace 06-07-2012 08:34 AM

Re: [Psionic Powers] Do inanimate targets resist Malediction with HT or Will?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Johnston2 (Post 1388619)
Even if that were true and it isn't automatically (try to make sense out of forming gestalts for the bio or electronic power sources) that doesn't answer the question.

I believe it does.
The question you asked that I quoted and replied to was "What do you charge for the ability to form gestalts?"

My answer is its a default switch from Powers with no point cost.

My more detailed answer follows....
Sure it wont work for all powers (and not all campaigns will allow the option) but that is a case by case basis and up to the GM to handle.
However as RPK said Psionics assumes certain setting choices in order to present a campaign option that is ready made and usable out of the box.
This is no different then Magic, RPM or several of the Thaumatology books.
To present a workable mechanic that is ready to use without designing every power and rule or setting switch the author has to take on the role of the GM and make setting assumptions for him.
However they are explained and typically other options are at least talked about and some in great detail which allows a GM to modify such a book to tweak for flavor.
But without that assumption you really cant have a worked project like this. And a lot of people wanted exactly that.

Oh and I can see many examples of electronic power sources combining and not just in the Supers genre. Pulp also has done that.
Bio powers are less likely but still possible such as two shape shifters merging, symbionts, retroviruses, etc.

munin 06-07-2012 11:54 AM

Re: [Psionic Powers] Do inanimate targets resist Malediction with HT or Will?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Johnston2 (Post 1388599)
What do you charge for the ability to form gestalts?

A power source can have Beneficial Options and Limiting Options (GURPS Powers, p. 174) that define the flavor of using the source. If a GM feels these aren't balanced against each other, they can adjust the power modifier cost or require an Unusual Background (p. P175). Adding a single source option, such as the ability to form a gestalt, is unlikely to be enough to require an additional cost of some sort unless the source was already close to being unbalanced (as the examples of source-specific rules on pp. P175-178 demonstrate, there's no need to make sure the options are balanced one-for-one -- getting the flavor of the source right is more important). If some psis can form a gestalt and others cannot, that might be worth a small Unusual Background in the form of an Extra Option perk, possibly one perk per ability that can be used in the gestalt.

GURPS Psionic Powers is consistent with (and elaborates on) the suggestions laid out in GURPS Powers as to the Psionic source-specific options (pp. P177-178), so that makes a good summary of the Psionic source options.

Not another shrubbery 06-07-2012 12:16 PM

Re: [Psionic Powers] Do inanimate targets resist Malediction with HT or Will?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty (Post 1388425)
In GURPS, many abilities (powers, spells, etc.) that are resisted by Will succeed automatically vs. a Will 0 rock. But many other abilities resisted by Will don't work at all against inanimate objects. So I decided that this book would split the difference with a reasonable ruling: If an inanimate object is targeted with a resisted-by-Will effect, it resists with HT.

"More" reasonable, I would have said ;)
My own preference is that such attacks, targeting a stat the target does not have, do nothing. This avoids interpretations that seem nonsensical, NOI to those who think otherwise. I suppose a lot of the problems I have with the official ruling go away if I can make sense of how a particular attack is working, but explanations on the weird ones often fly right by me :/

Anthony 06-07-2012 12:26 PM

Re: [Psionic Powers] Do inanimate targets resist Malediction with HT or Will?
 
I generally don't permit contests vs Will for anything other than mind-affecting powers, which makes rocks immune, but there's no real evidence for rocks having Will 0 anyway; they have IQ 0, Will n/a.

vicky_molokh 06-07-2012 12:51 PM

Re: [Psionic Powers] Do inanimate targets resist Malediction with HT or Will?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1388761)
I generally don't permit contests vs Will for anything other than mind-affecting powers, which makes rocks immune, but there's no real evidence for rocks having Will 0 anyway; they have IQ 0, Will n/a.

Actually, there is evidence.

Sunrunners_Fire 06-07-2012 01:48 PM

Re: [Psionic Powers] Do inanimate targets resist Malediction with HT or Will?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan (Post 1388539)
It's true that Psionic Powers has specific rules, but if some game effects work advantageously or disadvantageously, they should be reflected on point cost. GURPS adopts a point-based system.

Certainly.

What is the point cost for multiple feat penalties, for repeated attempt penalties, for additional contact bonuses, for situational modifiers, for extra effort, for the ability to create/use psi techniques, for power defenses, for forming gestalts, for ...? I'm not seeing any point costs for those (GURPS Psionic Power -version) Psionic advantages and disadvantages. Why do we get those for "free" but not this for "free" as part of the power modifier?

PK 06-07-2012 02:13 PM

Re: [Psionic Powers] Do inanimate targets resist Malediction with HT or Will?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan (Post 1388539)
Sorry, but I don't see what benefits and what drawbacks balance out to zero-cost here.

That's because you're only looking at this one rule. See Powers and Options (p. 6) for a rundown of some of the features that psi has. It has benefits and drawbacks, and these things roughly cancel out. You have to look at the forest, not each individual tree.

sir_pudding 06-07-2012 04:19 PM

Re: [Psionic Powers] Do inanimate targets resist Malediction with HT or Will?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Refplace (Post 1388610)
That is already a feature of Powers.

No it isn't. Beneficial and Limiting Options are specific to a Power. It doesn't make sense for most Biological powers to be able to for gestalts nor does it make sense to allow Pressure Secrets to cripple anything other than Chi powers.

Gurps Fan 06-07-2012 11:05 PM

Re: [Psionic Powers] Do inanimate targets resist Malediction with HT or Will?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh (Post 1388544)
Powers (detailed in Powers) can have minor positive and negative traits. For example, GURPS Psionic Powers can use powerful Power Techniques and some other positive little bits.

That's discussed in the box on p. 6 of Psionic Powers. Those are optional rules applied to every individual abilities that belong to psionic powers, which are partly advantageous and partly disadvantageous to psionic abilities in comparison with "raw" advantage (compare Jerry and Mark in the box example). Overall, they more-or-less balance out to zero-cost.

However, Pyrokinesis ability, which is intrinsically limited with "Nuisance Effect, Inanimate targets resist this attack with HT instead of Will 0", seems to have no counterbalancing benefits in comparison with a "raw" Malediction-enhanced Burning Attack.


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