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Flyndaran 05-24-2012 05:10 AM
Re: Generation Ships
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri (Post 1379386)
If you don't trust automatic warning systems it takes far less people to see if anything horrible is happening then the full complement of the crew.

Atomic Rockets states
"Poul Anderson noted that there is probably a limit to how long a human will remain viable in cryogenic suspension (in other words they have a shelf-life). Naturally occuring radioactive atoms in the body will cause damage. In a non-suspended person such damage is repaired, but in a suspended person it just accumulates. He's talking about this damage happening over suspensions lasting several hundred years, during interstellar trips. This may require one to periodically thaw out crew members and keep them awake for long enough to heal the damage before re-freezing them."



Suspension as an emergency action seems to make the most sense with human hibernation.
Well cryogenic suspension is superscience. Realistic cold hibernation could not last anywhere near centuries.
It's also a useful way to segregate the sick.

Frost 05-24-2012 05:27 AM
Re: Generation Ships
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 1379385)
I meant having the suspension as an emergency reserve, not an assumed way to increase efficiency.
It would be like having lifeboats on a ship, but always have a portion of your crew living in them. It defeats the purpose or a reserve.
In have to say that this is probably a fairly shakey analogy.

What would justify a fairly complex reserve system that will only see use during a specific failure mode or narrow set of failure modes, when the same mass could be used in a way that would reduce the likelyhood of failure in the first place. I can't see an emergency hibernation system being easier to justify than the same mass of redundant equiptment and stores dedicated to maintaing the biosphere in the first place.

Flyndaran 05-24-2012 05:30 AM
Re: Generation Ships
 
That really depends on how large and difficult to maintain the hibernation facilities are. Huge and clunky, then yes, more bio-reserves and back up machines make more sense. If they can be made compact and easy to maintain, then having at least some could be very useful.

Astromancer 05-24-2012 07:05 AM
Re: Generation Ships
 
Frankly, this is just another reason you want/need a fleet of large ships. If one ship's ecosphere has trouble, you want to distribute the population to the other ships.

Probably each individual ship's ecosystem will be a set of closely monitored ecosystems.

Sindri 05-24-2012 07:07 AM
Re: Generation Ships
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1379431)
Frankly, this is just another reason you want/need a fleet of large ships. If one ship's ecosphere has trouble, you want to distribute the population to the other ships.

Probably each individual ship's ecosystem will be a set of closely monitored ecosystems.
That's not really an argument for multiple ships. You could have multiple ecospheres within a single ship.

jeff_wilson 05-24-2012 08:03 AM
Re: Generation Ships
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 1379387)
Well cryogenic suspension is superscience.
How is this assertion supported?

Earther 05-24-2012 09:29 AM
Re: Generation Ships
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danukian (Post 1378653)
Most Navy warships designed are designed for an average of 2 weeks between shore leaves, in WWII, some ships with 2 years without the crew seeing land. A ship designed for a 100+yr voyage shouldn't have a major problem. Ships crew are hopefully put through a more stringent screening process than a cruise ship...
Navy crewmembers have the same problems that civilians have. Same percentage of crime and types of crime as the city a ship is based at. A submarine crew is more isolated. But they too have tenders to support them. A trip to the Moon and back used to be a week. The crew was on its own except for radio comm with Houston. What long-term ship rides are there currently? Cruise ships are just for a week at most, and they can't handle basic reservations, food prep, or crowd control at times. They want passengers gone from the ship as quickly as possible (no matter what) to get a ship ready again for another "fun" trip.

A long-term ride would need to be much better planned for, and not need assistance once launched.

Of course, if the ship has FTL drives, no planning is necessary once again. :)

Earther 05-24-2012 09:33 AM
Re: Generation Ships
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_wilson (Post 1379451)
How is this assertion supported?
Who has lived through it so far?

David Johnston2 05-24-2012 09:49 AM
Re: Generation Ships
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri (Post 1379386)
Suspension as an emergency action seems to make the most sense with human hibernation.
If you have the technology, rotating people in and out of cryogenic suspension would be a good way of maintaining continuity and keeping the ship's society from going off the rails

Sunrunners_Fire 05-24-2012 09:58 AM
Re: Generation Ships
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earther (Post 1379502)
Who has lived through it so far?
Superscience (as used by GURPS) is not "Can we do so now?", it is "Does this violate modern scientific understanding?" Cryonics does not violate modern scientific understanding; it simply isn't reversible with current technologies. There is some skepticism as to whether revival will be achievable, but it isn't impossible.


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