newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

I'm a complete newbie to GURPS, planning to start a campaign for my local gaming group in about a month... and after spending the last month browsing the 1300 pages of the Basic Set, Powers, and Supers, I'm starting to think that's not enough!

I posted about this in a thread about GURPS Lite supplements, but got the advice there that Lite is probably not a good starting point for a Supers game. So as to not hijack that thread, I'm starting this one to ask for more advice on how to reduce the rules complexity for our first campaign. At the moment, I can't even keep all the terminology straight (powers, talents, skills, techniques, etc.), much less explain to anybody how they relate and which they need to understand. (And I'm going to be the GM!)

So: what can I throw out to make it simpler?

The Supers book at one point recommended throwing out Talents, and using only wildcard skills. That sounds like a good start, but still leaves an awfully big cow to swallow.

Anything else? What's the bare minimum I need to go back and study to get a Supers game off the ground? I'm sure I sound like a whiner, but at the moment I'm feeling overwhelmed, and reconsidering whether GURPS is right for us at all. Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

Are you familiar with any other RPG rule systems? Knowing that might help us explain in terms of the differences.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

Fair question — mostly AD&D (starting with 1st edition, as a lad!), plus a few home-grown systems you wouldn't have heard of.

It's not that any of the GURPS material, by itself, is incomprehensible... it's just that there's so much of it. And much of it seems to overlap considerably: powers, skills, talents, and advantages all occupy pretty much the same place in my head, for example (and don't even ask me what "techniques" or "maneuvers" are, I have no idea).

I've probably made a mistake trying to jump right into Supers without first playing a few simpler GURPS games... but in our case, Supers is the whole reason we're considering GURPS at all. I've seen lots of advice to the effect of "don't try to swallow the whole cow," but none explaining exactly which parts of the cow you need to swallow first.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

Yeah, that's your problem right there - GURPS is kind of a lot to start with all at once. If you're smart and use the forums you can probably handle it, however, but Supers is probably the most challenging thing possible and you should probably expect a few wrinkles if you start with a high-power campaign.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

Disable most of the optional stuff. No techniques, much simpler combat. Use wildcard skills. Avoid magic. ('cause then you gotta go buy Thaumatology, which is great book, that adds even more stuff)

Abuse the heck out of the eyeballing modifiers table (somewhere in book 2 of the basic set, I forget exact page)

Let them know ahead of time that this is a bit complex and will be a bit slow at first.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

I'd recommend putting the Powers and Supers books back on the shelf for now. The Basic Set has plenty.

Ignore any mention of the word "techniques". Probably best to ignore Talents too.

Get these.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

Got those, and grateful for the recommendation on techniques and talents... but, can we play a reasonable superheroes campaign with just the Basic Set?

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

Indeed. Notably, many Superheroes can be well represented with DR, Innate Attack, Flight / Warp / Super Jump, etc - all of which are in Basic. I'd start by coming up with a character concept and seeing how far you can get building it on your own, then coming to the forums for additional help and clarification.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

The first thing I recommend is that you get out the Basic Set, and read the Psionics chapter very carefully, and make sense of how psionics works. Psi powers are the prototype for all other powers in GURPS. And that chapter is pretty short.

Then come back and ask questions about anything in the psionics rules you don't get.

Really, there are only about three basic ideas in that chapter—a list of advantages, a power modifier (such as "Psionic, -10%"), and a power talent (such as "Telepathy Talent"). You use the modifier to reduce the point cost of the advantage. When you want to use the advantage actively, you roll against some stat (usually IQ or Will, for psi powers); if you have the talent, you add your levels of the talent to the stat, which gives you a better chance of success.

Powers is just working out the implications of that idea. Supers mainly assumes you have the scheme down, and discusses how to apply it to re-creating the supers genre.

Bill Stoddard

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

OK, let's try explaining a few basics. You've got the hang of ST, DX, IQ and HT, presumably? Those are very much like Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Constitution in D&D.

There's only one basic kind of dice roll in GURPS, which is "Roll 3d6, wanting a low total", which does the same job as "Roll d20, wanting high" in D&D.

Skills are things you learn in a mundane way, from training or experience. Computer Operation, Driving (Automobile), and Guns (Pistol) are skills. GURPS has no direct equivalent of character level or hit dice: how good you are at hitting people depends on how good you are at the skill for the weapon you're using. Techniques are specialised uses of a skill, for being especially good at doing one particular, limited thing. Wildcard skills are "big skills", broad skills that cover a lot of related activities, and take the place of several ordinary skills.

Advantages are useful things you can do that are not skills. Powers are advantages, so are Talents. A Talent is the power at being talented at a set of skills, so you're better at doing them. Powers are, well, "anything you can build out of advantages and their modifiers" so it's a big subject.

Maneuvers are actions you take during combat, like "Attack" or "Move".

These's an example of building a character - Dai Blackthorn - embedded in the Characters book. Working over that - he has a complete character sheet at the end of the book - until you get stuck, or understand why all the numbers on it are there, might be a good exercise.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

I don't know about supers. It has a lot of information on simplifying things for the genre. And the templates are perfect for most character types.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

Let me break it down.
Powers are advantages that are defined as a power.
For example you could have the advantage Luck and it means your just a little luckier then average OR you could slap a power modifier on it and call the same thing part of your Super Powers.
Power Modifiers or PM are just a minor limitation you get that makes the power cheaper becasue it can be countered. But also give you he ability to boost them with talents.

Attributes are the foundation of most skills and die rolls. So a IQ 10 means your skills that are IQ based work off that.

Talents are a bonus to all the appropriate skills and work like you have a higher attribute for those specific skills or powers it applies to.
So a jeweler Talent means that for jewelry stuff you have (Attribute + talent) as your base.
Talents also reduce training or learning time but dont worry about that for now. It just is a way to have someone good at a related group of skills without having to push their attributes higher. A way to specialize.

Skills are things your good at, weapons skills, scientific skills, social skills, etc.
Some are easier then others and so they are higher level for the same number of points spent on them.
Many skills have a default which is a way of saying that even with no training you can still try them. But a trained person will be better.

Techniques are simply very specific applications of a skill. So with a few points in techniques your better at doing one particular thing then someone with just the base skill.

Maneuvers are combat actions.
The martial arts cheat sheet and combat cards can help you get used to them but in the beginning you may just keep it simple. Allow Attack, Wait, Move, etc. Go to fancier maneuvers as people get used to the system.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

On the can you do Supers with just Basic.
Yes you can. Bills suggestion (note he wrote Supers) is a great one, the Psionics chapter will help you get the feel of it.
Basic has pretty much all the rules and advantages you will need for just about anything.
The various suplements tend to explain how to use the Basic stuff and mold it to fit the genre in the book. They do add new stuff as well but you can play without them, it just helps you do it better.

Powers has lots of examples and some new modifiers to existing advantages and 4 new advantages. Mostly it is a book that helps you build custom advantages so it is really helpful to most games but especially a Supers game.
However it is a great reference book and adds only a few optional rules.
This means you can skim it to be familiar with it then just look up stuff as you need to. Also it is rarely used in a game, more pregame as you build the charecters. After that you may need to look up how a power works in it but your players should know what they can do before a game.

Supers is like Powers but focused on a Super Hero game and adds a lot of material in the way of suggestions and explanations on how to do something.
It is very dense though so harder to use as a reference book if you have not read it.
GURPS has traditionally an excellent table of contents and index and this helps a LOT when trying to find something in a hurry.
Supers is more about building your campaign then building a character but it gives to of help there as well.

I recommend you be familiar enough to find things with all your books and dont worry about memorizing or digesting the details.
Also if during a game somethign comes up, have a player find the rule or item while another player is doing something.
That frees up your time and gets your players more familiar with the rules and options. However do not worry about looking up everything, especially in a Supers genre you can just eyeball a ruling and say well do it this way for now.
Write anything that comes up and look it up later adn make sure everyone knows things are new so you may have to reverse a ruling later as you get more familiar with the rules.
But better that then stopping them game for 10 minutes while you look something up.
Building characters will be daunting at first but gets easier with practice. Building Supers can be more math heavy then any other type and overall a Super is among the most complex characters to build.

Come back to the forums for suggestions on how to build something you or a player has in mind. Hopefully you wont have any martial artist or mage types in your first batch of characters. But you can stil do them, just they add complexity in play. Means at the beginning they may be a bit weak till everyone used to the rules.
If you do though find out the player goal as well as you can, often a player wants to build something he saw in a book or comic. Tell us if hes trying to build batman or Superman for example.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

OK, first, let me say "thanks" to the whole group — this is an amazingly responsive and helpful community.

Next, I'm pleased to report that things are finally starting to click into place a bit. The recommendation to study the Psionics chapter was a great one; I had just skimmed that before, thinking that psionics weren't too relevant to the world I have in mind. But now I see that this is the chapter that lays out the whole concept of powers and talents. There's even a little box on p. 257 that points out how new powers could be defined for comic-book supers. It's only four pages, but it's an important four pages!

So, now I'm thinking of this approach for my first supers campaign:

1. Pass the GURPS Lite rules around to all my players.
2. Supplement this with a little summary of how powers and talents work.
3. Define new powers which relate more directly to super powers, and let my players choose among those (as well as the standard psi powers, I suppose).

For the powers in step 3, I'll look again in the Powers and Supers books. Perhaps these will be more digestible now that I know what I'm hoping to get out of them. And of course I'll let them look at my books if they want more detail (and at least one player is planning to buy them himself), but the above will at least provide a playable ruleset we can all swallow.

Left out of this picture are a lot of new rules I seem to recall regarding super-strength, super effort, etc. Are these things I can safely do without?

Also, what should I do for a gadgeteer character like Iron Man or Batman, whose abilities come not from innate talent or ability, but from super tech? I'm tempted to just go ahead and define these as Powers anyway, with the "electronic" modifier to all the abilities granted, and maybe something else ("deniable"?) to indicate that the tech can be taken away, leaving our poor hero with merely human capability. What do you think of this approach?

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

Batman has Gizmos. Lots of Gizmos.
Use the Gadget limitations from the basic set for devices which can be taken away to depower people.

Super-effort is in genre, but can probably be ignored for a while.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

OK, I've found the Gadget limitations you mentioned on p. 116-117. I also see the Signature Gear ability on p. 85. I suppose power-suits, bat-shark-repellent, etc. could be built up as Signature Gear with the Gadget limitations.

Thanks again... I'll post updates (and probably more questions) as it all comes together.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

Supers discusses how do to this.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

JoeStrout, I'm pretty sure that powers with the Gadget limitation and signature gear are two different things.

Gadget is for things like a ring of flight (in a setting without enchantment), or a palm-sized flame thrower, or a suit of power armor if power armor is really rare.

Signature Gear never gets the Gadget limitation. Sig gear is for things like a fancy rifle, or a nice car. If the power armor is common enough that lots of people have it, it's sig gear.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

Supers has a discussion of taking some piece of mundane gear and then adding abilities to it, IIRC.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

Look on page B117 for the simplest way to do such characters.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

If you have the time for it, I'd recommend sitting down with Powers and just reading through the book, minus chapters 2 & 3, slowly and meticulously from start to finish. If stuff gets mentioned you don't understand, try and look it up in the basic set. It's only 114 pages really.

Powers is, imo, really well written, structured and easy to follow. It's just dense. But once you've gone through it once to know what is in there, you basically understand everything you need to know about super powers.

Chapters 2 & 3, as well as the crunch in Supers, just becomes awesome stuff you now know how to use after that.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

The most important piece of advice I can give you regarding how to use the tools of GURPS - specifically Advantages, and especially for a superhero game - is this:

Always keep an eye toward the end result you want. GURPS is like a Lego set: although you have all the pieces in front of you, they aren't necessarily assembled yet, and you can't always treat them as a completed whole exactly as they appear on the page.

For instance: don't get caught up on word choice, or flavor text, or anything else like that. "Gear," in your Batman and Iron Man question, is an excellent example. While "Signature Gear" might be a good choice for Bruce Wayne, to represent that he owns nice, expensive things, and can easily replace them without any "on screen" effort, it's a poor choice for Tony Stark's armor. For that, you have to answer the question "What does it DO?"

Conceptually deconstructing the Iron Man armor, what it DOES is provide defense, offense, flight, internal scanners, etc. - and it's (more or less) unique. Rather than finding a statted-up battlesuit that does this which the character buys as equipment, it's generally a better idea to create a character who has the Advantages which reflect these abilities - Damage Reduction, Innate Attacks of whatever flavor seems right, likely a ST boost, Flight, Detect or Hyperspectral Vision, etc. - all bought with various modifiers (such as the Gadget limitations, Temporary Disadvantage:Electrical, etc.) which reflect what makes these particular applications of the Advantages different from others.

This process is what makes superheroes viable with only the Basic Set. However, Powers and Supers could still be useful as tools which help to parse how you can think of those core rules in the service of achieving a specific feel, genre, etc.


EDIT: Looking back, my answer doesn't help you decide what you can do without. The only thing I'd add to others' advice is that all Optional rules - and even some standard rules - can be ignored if you feel they make things difficult. Worried that Extra Effort or Super Effort will make too much bookkeeping in combat? Don't use it! Concerned that an Advantage could get out of hand or be too difficult to keep track of? Don't let PCs have it! In terms of what is strictly necessary for your game, a lot of that will depend on what your players want to do, and whether there's a need for a special rule for that thing.

Re: newbie needs help getting started with Supers
 

In fact, the advice you gave is exactly what GURPS Supers recommends doing in those cases.

Bill Stoddard