Fate Points in GURPS (and games in general)
 

I'd like to start a discussion about the merits and flaws of a "Fate Point" concept in GURPS and games in general. Many games make use of the idea--some kind of immaterial, insubstantial "heroic" quality that makes PCs more likely to survive combat compared to "lesser" individuals.

In GURPS, I implemented them in my supposedly non-cinematic game by allowing PCs to purchase "Fate Points" at the cost of 2 character points, and to then use that Fate Point as described in Flesh Wounds and Influencing Success from the Basic Set.

To be honest, the mechanic is somewhat disappointing me. The idea of Fate Points is to help prevent random PC death from mere bad luck. The effect of Fate Points has been to reduce combat in GURPS from something that's actually threatening to an experience that you know you can survive as long as you've kept enough CP in reserve AND don't get too many times. Since bad guys don't get Fate Points (yet), there are few cases where a PC has been in danger more than once in a single combat. This is especially true when the PCs use their "ambush and snipe" tactics (which is fine--those are good tactics!).

I'm wondering how people implement Fate Points in their games, and if so, what kind of Fate Point mechanics are being used.

Also, are Fate Points really a good idea or do they lead to artificially reduction in combat lethality, thus altering the mood of the game?

Re: Fate Points in GURPS (and games in general)
 

Monster Hunters already implements such idea in form of points for Wildcard Skills and Destiny Advantage as well as unspent CP.

There is also Luck. And MH explains what is the difference between just skilled individual and truly hero.

Re: Fate Points in GURPS (and games in general)
 

I just started a game using what I am calling "Luck" and "Fail" points. The points basically represent the cinematic concept of a hero only having so many close calls before their luck runs out.

In my game Luck points are earned by good roleplaying. This can be anything but usually they are earned when a player acts according to his character's nature, rather than according to the ideal path to achieve an objective. I think this helps limit abuses which could arise from simply spending CP.

The Fail points are intended to balance the Luck points. Any time a character fails a roll they get a Fail point. If they Critically Fail one of the options on the table is that they must take a disadvantage equal to their number of Fail points. They can also intentionally trade in Fails or use Luck points to balance Fail points.

I think this is going to work, and so far my guys are enjoying it, but it may turn out to be a disaster.

Re: Fate Points in GURPS (and games in general)
 

I don't like buying success. My own version of Fate/Destiny Points in GURPS is different, I give them to the players each session in any amount which I feel is appropriate, often only 1 point for each of them. Also I don't let them save points, if it's not used in that session it's lost.

That's how I do it:
They can use a destiny/fate point (poker chip) to get a re-roll instantly after a failed roll and take the better result of both rolls (I don't allow that for critical failures though). Also it can be fun allowing the players to throw a chip for letting the GM roll again for some lucky NPC :) In every case it's important that the players don't know the specific consequences of the roll yet, they have to decide before the GM describes the results.
Personally I also allow to throw a chip <before> rolling to get a +4 bonus on any task, but I deny using more than 1 chip for one action - try out what you like... Give your strongest enemies a few chips for save-rolls, too, so they survive longer and if life is too easy on the player side use the chips offensively, too :>

Moreover if you forbid to play the points for the "own" character of the player, you'll get an interesting team play enhancement, this is a mode I use very often in my games, too. In a constructive, team oriented way players are urged to pay more attention for each others actions and support the most important ones.

Re: Fate Points in GURPS (and games in general)
 

I think I disagree with the assertion that "fate points" in other games are there to make combat more survivable. And I don't think they would be a good approach to dealing with that issue. I think if you want more survivable combat, let them buy up some extra hit points, and design your fights such that the opponent is a threat, but not one who's amount of threat is decided almost entirely by dice rolls.

Extreme example of what I mean: The bad guy is a single bad guy with huge defensive ability, and an attack that does ridiculous damage if it connects... probably a one-shot kill if it connects with a PC. In that combat, the PCs have great threat to their survival, but it's all about whether or not the "big bad guy" hits with his attack or not. If it hits, you're stuck with a PC dying. The dice control the whole thing, and I think that's the sort of scenario you're imagining fate points would help with... to force the bad guy to miss or something.

Example of what I suggest: The PCs go up against a swarm of combat robots (or whatever). Each one by itself isn't a huge threat, but as a group they add up. Each one has a good level of skill, but doesn't do a huge amount of damage with an attack... specifically designed so that the damage on average would be just a few points... something any PC can survive a couple of. Now the PCs have something to face that is a threat (and feels like a threat: "there's too many of them!") but which through good tactics they can deal with. If they focus on one target to take it down, they reduce the enemy's damage dealing ability, and they take some minor damage. Each round they take a little more as a group (the bad guys aren't using good tactics in this case), but take down one or two more of the bad guys. The idea being that regardless of the dice, the players have time to make decisions. If things aren't going their way, they can choose to retreat. If things are going poorly but a change of tactics could get them the win, they can try it. If things are going well, they still paid a price for it. No need for "fate points" for it to feel pretty epic.

What I think Fate Points are for: I've tried coming up with fate point systems for GURPS, and at this point, I think I prefer not having them. I think they're most useful to make up for deficiencies in a system. For example D&D 4e. As you level up the relative scores for attack and defense stay the exact same, and are not in the player's favor. They balance it so that you end up with about a 60% chance to hit your foes and like a 95% chance for you to get hit (at least that's how it feels when I play). The DM I play with decided to try "plot points" and we could re-roll a bad roll with them (there were other uses, but re-roll was the only thing worth it). I think he wanted them to help give a more epic feel, but really... they were just part of the mechanic, and all they did was help mitigate what I see as a problem in the system.

So that's my two cents... or ninety cents... or whatever that counts as.

Re: Fate Points in GURPS (and games in general)
 

I like this.

Re: Fate Points in GURPS (and games in general)
 

Finally I guess I should post how I would implement "fate points" if I were going to do so. Because while I think they're a way to deal with deficiencies in the system, I can understand the appeal for a more cinematic campaign.

Heroic Action Points
Each character starts with 5 of these, and new ones are earned during game play by impressing the GM. This can be done with excellent roleplaying, good 11th hour ideas, and anything that makes the GM react by saying: "that was awesome". This pool carries over from session to session. If the player uses them all without earning new ones, they have zero. If they have 37 saved up... well... good for them.

Using your HAPs
You can only make one use of your HAPs per turn. Choose one of the options from the list below...

- Tiny Amount of Luck (1 HAP): The character can subtract one from the die roll result. This is specifically in place so that you can reduce a critical failure to an automatic failure, or an automatic failure to just a bad roll. It can also move a roll from a 5 to a 4 (for auto success) or 4 to a 3 (for a critical success)

- Heroic Surge (1 HAP): For any muscle powered weapon damage, the character can add 2 to the damage, or +1 per base damage die, whichever is higher.

- Second Wind (1 HAP): Spent at the beginning of a turn, the second wind means that you have your moment of clarity and you ignore the negative penalties of having low hit points. You can act normally as long as you're conscious to begin with.

- Amazing Turn of Events (5 HAP): In a round where you take a lot of damage... enough to put you past -HP... you can spend your points, and negate all the damage you took that round. From a story perspective... the dust settles, and GM will describe everyone thought you were a goner including the bad guys, but somehow, you're still standing.

[more options could be defined... this is just what I came up with while writing this post.]

Re: Fate Points in GURPS (and games in general)
 

@OP: Not so much starting a discussion as continuing one ;)

My version of "Fate Points," in detail. Personally, I hate when a "bad dice night" ruins the game enough that I can suffer through the lack of "mortality" without a "safety net" mechanic of some kind.

As a side note, you can raise the tension of a session by removing fate points, in full or in part.

Re: Fate Points in GURPS (and games in general)
 

Well, I intend to use Luck Points in Sagatafl, as something players can choose to purchase during character creation. But they regenerate based on in-world time, not metagame time, and somewhat slowly, so e.g. in a combat-heavy campaign I don't think Luck Traits applicable to combat will make a serious difference.

Could your problem be that you have decided for Fate Points to regain too quickly? Or that they regenerate based on metagame time? Or both?

Re: Fate Points in GURPS (and games in general)
 

I used something similar for a short-run supers game. They were awarded separately from CP. They were allowed to retroactively change a failure to a success or to guarantee a critical success if spent in advance of the roll. This worked well. I awarded 1 per session and they mostly saved them until the climactic scene wherein they were nearly all spent.