[SE] Status pretensions
 

Hi,

On page 19 of Social Engineering, it says:

I'm having a little trouble understanding this passage.

I'm assuming that the skill to sustain the pretensions refers to Acting. So you try passing for a Duke and you fail your Acting roll often enough you get a negative Rep. So far so good.

But then it goes on to say that if you don't try to pass for someone of higher rank but just spend a lot of money you have an OPH and people will react negatively to your "pretensions". This part troubles me. If you're not trying to pass, then there is no pretension and it would seem to imply that simply free-spending on its own automatically imposes a significant social Disad on a character (in-play, so no points gained).

The example doesn't really make clear which part of his behaviour rates as social climbing, or why a rich merchant purchasing a house is an OPH. (Also, this conflicts a bit with reality wherein we see lavish spending actually ASSIST social climbing rather than penalizing it.)

Re: [SE]Status pretensions
 

My suspicion is that that part depends heavily on the society in question. In some times and places, spending above your station could be an actual crime...

On the other hand, one might suggest that in places where spending 'above your station' works, you actually are able to increase your Status that way. So by spending above your Status rather than buying more Status you're indicating that it's not working.

Re: [SE] Status pretensions
 

As I read it, the term "skill" is not a reference to a GURPS skill, but could be equally replaced by "accomplishment," "aptitude," "competence," "cunning" etc.

Thus, Jean Richard uses his wealth and all that means to buy a position on the Privy Council. Fair enough. The nobility have been doing that for generations and it's a pretty well-accepted method of social advancement (though depending on how it was handled the individual might gain a reputation for being somewhat uncouth). The OPH, on the other hand (and again as I see it), results out of conspicuous consumption--spending money with the deliberate intent of impressing his "peers." If, on the other hand, Jean Richard were purchasing a permanent residence in Paris (because he lived elsewhere)? Well, that would be situation-normal and to be expected if coupled with the appropriate rank. Jean Richard, on the other hand, is part of the middle class...

In some ways it mirrors "Old Money" and "New Money."

At least that's my take on it. And, of course, there are societies were conspicuous consumption can be a form of social combat (c.f. potlach in the NW Pacific), used to establish status (Halstatt chiefdoms and the use of positive reciprocal trade), etc.

Re: [SE] Status pretensions
 

That is exactly what it's intended to mirror. And it's only suitable for societies that have old wealth with status anxiety: Rome when patricians encountered vulgar social climbing knights, France with the noblesse d'epée and the noblesse du robe, Victorian aristocrats sneering at "people who buy their silver." Either slow circulation of elites or very fast circulation of elites will not produce this effect, and the mechanic should not be applied there.

Bill Stoddard

Re: [SE] Status pretensions
 

Nancy Kress had a witty short story about this some years back: An alien couple visit earth and are entertained by an earth couple, in company with another earth couple. And the hosts are Old Money and are casual about their wealth in certain specific ways—for example, they aren't worried when their dogs lie on the furniture, which horrifies the other earth couple, who are New Money and have very lower middle class attitudes. But the actual aliens are their culture's form of Old Money, and they and their hosts hit it off perfectly, which the other earth couple are total outsiders—and they can all sense it.

Bill Stoddard

Re: [SE] Status pretensions
 

The skill is actually Savoir-Faire (High Society), or knowing how to spend your money on the right kind of expensive stuff. Showing up in a beautifully tailored suit rather than five pounds of bling, for example. If you check the rules on Acting, I think you'll find that using Acting to impersonate someone of much higher Status either requires Savoir-Faire or is greatly helped by it.

Bill Stoddard

Re: [SE] Status pretensions
 

Bugger, I forgot about Savoir-Faire. There is a skill for it, though that doesn't make the synonyms any less valuable. ;)

Re: [SE] Status pretensions
 

Actually there would be a lot of different skills involved in pretending to higher status depending on the circumstances.






Lavish spending only helps when you know how to spend. Suppose some hillbilly discovers oil on his land and becomes one of the richest men in the United States. He could spend a bunch of money on, say, trying to finance his own moon launch and this would be regarded as eccentric but not odious. If on the other hand he decides that he wants to build his own mansion in Beverly Hills and invite his neighbours to a housewarming party, the mansion will look like a tasteless garish monstrosity, the food will be overpriced without actually being good, his new suit will similarly be expensive but tasteless and garish, and his manners will be those of a hillbilly. People with high status will react poorly.

With skills like architecture, connoisseur, savoir fair, and perhaps a skilled valet you could fake being high status, or you could actually buy up your status. But without that knowledge, you'll just look like an idiot who is ruining the neighbourhood with your ugly house.

Re: [SE] Status pretensions
 

This example just has to go into a class somewhere even if I have to shoe-horn it in! Awesome. :D

Re: [SE] Status pretensions
 

-- What's amusing here is that it can be more advantageous to the character to just purchase the extra Status, since then he won't be saddled with restrictions aimed squarely at making this all a net-zero gain.

Re: [SE] Status pretensions
 

Looks like another author I'll have to check out. What collection was this in?
Sounds like something I might have seen before.

Some strange time travel going on, there :?

Re: [SE] Status pretensions
 

I had forgotten the title, but it's "People like Us," it's in The Aliens of Earth, and you can read it online at http://www.lysator.liu.se/lsff/confuse93/people.txt . And it's totally relevant to Social Engineering!

Bill Stoddard

Re: [SE] Status pretensions
 

Boss! There should be enough of her stuff there to give me a good feel for her writing. Thanks for the link!