Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

Hello all,

I'm in the process of building a world setting for a campaign I plan on running... probably starting in February at this point. The basic idea of the setting is real-world Earth about 200 years into the future. I'm cherry picking technological growth. I'm also including Psionics as the primary way to differentiate the main characters. After all, in the real world, most people don't have a reason to go on adventures, and psionics make for a nice hook.

In my campaign, the psionics are done using the 3e design... power categories with skills you can get to use that power in different ways. I like it better than the 4e psionics that seems to be basically: each skill from 3e is an advantage in 4e. Sort of. Anyway, I don't like the 4e way of doing it... but that's not why I'm writing this post. I just told you about my choice of how to handle psionics because it might be relevant to the question I intend on asking.

The last piece of info before asking my question is to describe "limit breaks". In Final Fantasy VII, your characters had something called limit breaks, where after you took enough damage or dealt enough damage, a gauge would fill up, and you could then use an extremely powerful ability. The idea as I understand it is that the character had just reached their limit, and they unleash whatever rage, adrenaline, determination in a big powerful move.

There are two pieces of that puzzle: "what causes the gauge to fill" and "what can you do when you get there". So my question is: How would you implement a limit break system in GURPS? I kind of want to do something like that for my campaign.

The way I see it in my head, if my players' characters are getting along well, and would care about each other, and example of a situation that would cause the limit break option to be available would be seeing one of their friends fall in combat. Basically... situations that I as the GM would consider highly emotional situations that make the person snap and act in a more powerful way.

I know that this could be sort of emulated by players who roleplay really well. Seeing one of their friends go down in combat, might make the player react strongly and suddenly decide to start taking all-out-attacks on the foe that downed the PC. I would definitely award points for roleplaying that well. But I think I want another game mechanic effect of those high strung situations... especially something that could interact with the psionics.

So yeah: How would all of you implement something like this? Would you stick with normal rules and just teach your players to use the other combat options more often? If you did use something like the limit break from FFVII, how would you model the gauge building up to a point where the power could be used? How do I create a mechanic for "reaching one's limit" or do I leave it as GM fiat? What would the power be? Maybe just double power level for a psionic power? A big strength boost (massive adrenaline surge). Free "high pain threshold" for a few rounds?

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

I would probably make some custom powers that can only happen when the character spends x fp, and they can only spend the fp when some trigger happens. The trigger could potentially be unique for each character depending on preexisting disads, like if a compatriot goes unconscious, they themselves are dropped to below 0 hp, or an enemy regains hit points.

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

One way to do it is to give characters ER with Special Recharge that requires DR with Absorption in order to recharge then give all the Limit Break abilities Costs ER. I think DR having the DR not stop any damage is a -100% limitation.

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

First, I wouldn't use limit breaks at all because they're silly and don't match into reality at all. However, if I were to do so, I'd go one of two routes.

1. Energy Reserve with Special Recharge, DR with absorption, and abilities that can only be powered via that ER.

2. Abilities with the Trigger limitation, at the -60% level (a Rare, Dangerous trigger).

With the ER method, the 'limit break' abilities will be usable at defined times - after a character has taken x number of hits, for example. Other times you might grant them ER due to emotional trauma (rather than physical trauma), but that'll have to be GM fiat.

With the Trigger method, it'd all be up to GM fiat.

EDIT: Alternatively, just give every character the Berserk disadvantage, which functions similarly to a 'limit break'.

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

If I were to model something like what you are describing, I would probably not give them a power boost, but make powers free for a short time. Essentially the idea that tapping into your rage overwhelms the limitations on your psychic powers, and allows you to use them with no consequence to yourself. It may not be "realistic" but then neither are psionics or most of the other things that are discussed on these forms. I, for one, have never let reality get in the way of my escapist fantasy gaming.

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

Most limit breaks are just accessibility restrictions on powers. Maybe even partial, i.e. you only reach your full power level under various circumstances, but still are able to use a less powerful version most of the time.
The old RPG staple of a berserker rage is probably the grandfather of it all.

Now, the limitations depend on the background and character, of course. Getting bloodied, falling into a trance, emergency anime stripper super-clone self-preservation instinct…

If your power framework is uniformly psionic, then you'd have to work with that, unless you want to introduce various other backgrounds. How strict is your world's rules for psis? If they're heavily restricted, it might be that a few people could have powerful effects, but every effort is taken to prevent this, as it could endanger the general populace (and/or those in power). But under the stress of combat, things might be different. Activating those breaks might have some legal repercussions…

Or the other way around: This "limit break" behaviour is built in as an intentional "backdoor" to protect psis.

In both cases, there would be various ways to model this in GURPS terms. You could simply require an activation roll for a Power and more or less leave the emotional circumstances up to the player. Or do it via Fright Checks. Or Accessiblity(only at 1/2 HP or lower)…

I could also imagine a more "psychic vampire" scenario. So after you down a few foes, you can unleash /real power/, mwahaha. If your campaign has a somewhat palpable "psychic energy" then it's just collecting that, otherwise it could be a kind of virus – if you take out an opponent with your psi blast, a kind of psionic program runs in his mind while he's unconscious. Get enough of those "programs" in one place, and you get enough psychic resonance to activate your limit break.

A variant of that would be a self-induced group "backup", i.e. your group is trained to do that. Once a friend is unconscious, he/she is doing that amplifying thing, thus providing some kind of semi-scientific empathic justification for the "screaming psi" scenario ("My friends! NOOOOOO!" *splat*)

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

Oh, and Psionic Powers in 4e (not the Psionics chapter in the Basic Set - Psionic Powers is a completely separate book) is relatively similar to the 3e design, but updated for 4e.

If you want your limit breaks to be all about psionic powers, then the obvious answer would be to give a bonus to Extra Effort when the 'break' occurs (this allows you to greatly boost the level of your psionic abilities). You could even still use the ER with Special Recharge idea presented earlier, and use that ER to offset the Extra Effort or Technique penalties.

Brock: Psionic Powers don't usually cost FP or anything else - they're already free.

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

All interesting responses so far. Definitely giving me things to think about. At the moment, I'm really liking the idea that reaching the limit means not having to expend resources to power the powers.

Hmm...

A separate fatigue point pool (or ER or whatever)... something that is usually at zero, but taking damage can add points to it, as well as GM decisions. That separate pool can't be used until full and then it can be used to power the psi abilities. That way, it could be used to power many small efforts, or a couple big ones. And it has a built in limit on how much can be done. When you run out of points, you're winded, and are otherwise back to normal.

Well... I'm definitely not decided yet. Can't wait to see if there are other ideas.

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

Would Unconscious Only + Uncontrollable (pp. B115-116) serve your purposes?

Bill Stoddard

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

I have something kind of similar for my Pathos/Angst system. Still working on it.
You have a special ER that is on special recharge so its cheap.
The ER is only recharged by things that affect the particular emotion.
So a rage ER would fill up as you got angry. Lose self control roles for the appropriate disad to fill it up is the main way but anytime the GM says make a roll against say Berserk you may get a point if you succeed but more if you fail.
Then you buy the powers or extra levels of a power using cost fatigue and possibly temporary disadvantage of the right type.

So for an example.
Character normally has TK at ST 10 and is rage powered.
Buys extra 10 ST TK with costs FP and temporary disad berserk.
When he gets mad he makes a will roll and if he succeeds gets 1 FP to recharge the ER.

Not really happy with with all the mechanics yet, as I said its incomplete. But that might give you some useful ideas for your "Limit Break" thing.

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

You'd need to use an alternative system for those powers, then, because the default ones (including the 3e version, if I remember right) already do not require the expending of resources to power the powers.

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

You're right. It's something I have to think about. I want the psi to be a useful tool in their arsenal... so I don't want this limit break idea to change psi enough that it's a pain. I might not use it at all. It's why I'm posting here on the forum about it. I'm trying to get thoughts about it before trying to implement it in the game. If it's too clunky or complex... I don't want it there. And I don't want to have to make all psi use cost fatigue just to get the "limit break" idea to work.

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

I still think the easiest method would be to have the 'limit break' allow you to use Extra Effort on the psi abilities easily, allowing you to double or triple your effective level in the ability.

You should really look into GURPS Psionic Powers - I think it'll work well for you.

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

They could use the Limit Break FP to fuel Extra Effort (as described in Psi Powers) or Power Stunts (from Powers) to boost their effective level or exceed other normal limits of their power. Throw in the +5 bonus to the Will-based roll for attempting Extra Effort in an emergency, with possibly an additional situational bonus (ie, extra Power Talent with an Accessibility or Trigger limit.) If they need an additional skill boost, they can remove -1 penalty per additional 1 FP spent.

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

I guess my question is, "what are you trying to accomplish with 'Limit Breaks' as a mechanism"?

Psionic fiction often uses psionics as a very obvious metaphor for learning to control and understand your emotions. Characters grow as people, becoming more introspective and understanding their own strength and flaws, and that is obviously demonstrated by their increased psychic competency.

Is that where you are going with this? Or is psionic power simply a "specialness" that provides backstory and plot, as well as cool powers for the characters to use? Because in that case the characters should already be competent, and their powers should start off reliable--the game isn't about "growing up", the story is about contests between capable ability users.

In the case of "psionics as growing up", then the "Limit Break" is a "crutch", it's "training wheels" that the characters will eventually grow past, mechanically, by buying off the inconvenient limitations, if they so choose.

If the case of "cool powers", then they exist to add tactical depth as characters attempt to fill up and line up their Limit Breaks--while preventing their opponents from doing so. And, they help differentiate and gave a unique feel, rather than being "another powers game".

In the end, my suggestion is, make it pretty open. I would do something like this:

House Rule: How you build Psionic powers are subject to the following restrictions in this campaign:
1) Psionic powers must use ER, not FP.
2) Every use of power must consume at least 1 point of ER.
3) ER must be bought with the "does not refill naturally" limitation.

Then I'd let the players go. I think it would be more interesting to have everyone come up with their own solution to "how I fill ER???"

I think you could build an interesting campaign around the implications of how the players answered that question--and around the (possibly unethical) ways the NPCs solved it.

But that's me.

What kind of stories do you want your campaign to be about? How does the characters' Powers support that?

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

I'd just say that Limit Breaks are just uses of Extra Effort getting a significant bonus for emotional impetus. If you're fighting for that last inch of your life — or someone else's — you're going to get a fair bonus on your Extra Effort rolls.

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

Good point. Video games use a "limit gauge" because there is no GM to decide when a character is desperate enough to tap his last reserves. Translate the spirit of the source material, not the mechanics themselves.

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

Others have suggested was of modeling the gauge. For powers, any of the above are okay. If my memory of FF7 serves me well, some ridiculously powerful and flashy Innate Attacks and Afflictions would be better. With plenty of Special Effects, and lots of enhancements and modifiers.

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

Took me a while to think it through enough, but I agree. I'm going to do a couple things.

First, I'm just going to make sure my players understand the extra effort rule. So they can do it on their own.

Second, if I think they're roleplaying in a way that suggests to me that the given moment means something to them... if they can make me believe that their character is desperate... I'll tell them they can use extra effort but with some benefit. But I'm not going to explain that one to them before hand. I don't want anyone trying to ham it up to get rewards. I want something I can give them in game immediately to help something along that I think is really cool.

I'm not totally settled on what the benefit will be. I don't really want to reduce fatigue cost because in my head the being totally exhausted afterward is part of the deal. You don't come out of a desperate but awesome story laden fight looking like you're ready to keep going. It costs something.

I'm thinking maybe double the number of bonus levels for the fatigue they spend... so it still costs 3 fatigue (in 3e rules... not sure if it changed in 4e) to get 1 level normally, and I might make it cost 3 to get 2 levels when I want to apply a "limit break".

Hmm...

Still thinking, and I'm still not settled. I might just skip the limit break idea entirely.

I do appreciate all the input.

Re: Limit Breaks in GURPS
 

Here's an idea:

Whatever mechanism you use for unlocking extra power, link it to a Fright Check. Then, go ahead and make liberal use of Fright Checks for occurrences like "impending death", or "the near death of a person to whom the character has a Sense of Duty".

Thoguh i'm not sure whether the extra power should be available if you succeed at the Fright Check, or if you fail.