Entangle & Hit locations
 

So according to the book the entangle technique is at -4 to hit, but what are the penalties for the hit-locations?

If I want to hit a foot is it an extra -4 for a strike or is it a -2 for a grapple?

Thx for any help.

Re: Entangle & Hit locations
 

Also, a followup question...

If i want to buy up the entangle foot 'attack' should I buy it as 2 skills:
TA: whip/foot & teq: whip/entangle

or as just the 1 skill: Teq: Entangle foot/whip

Re: Entangle & Hit locations
 

I'd call it -4 for the entangle, and then apply grappling penalties. The -4 takes care of the wrapping the weapon around tight enough to bind, but it's a grapple, and so I'd use the regular grappling rules for location.

The only caveat here is that grabbing a WEAPON uses the full penalties for the hand (-4).

Re: Entangle & Hit locations
 

One technique. The skill/technique is Whip Entangle/Foot, the same way you write Karate Kick/Nads.


dhc

Re: Entangle & Hit locations
 

An Entangle is not an Armed Grapple (which uses grappling hit location penalties), it has its own rules (Lariats, p. B411, and Entangle, p. MA71). As no mention is made of using grappling hit location penalties (as Armed Grapple explicitly does), just use the normal hit location penalties.

Re: Entangle & Hit locations
 

While it's not an Armed Grapple, which is the technique of using a weapon to grapple someone in close combat, an Entangle is a grapple. Armed Grapple makes reference to it (" . . . to snag an opponent at full reach") and Martial Arts p. 71 uses the same technical language (break free) used to describe grapples.

It does use special rules, as you say. You don't suffer -4 to DX, you suffer effectively -infinity to DX (you're "immobilized.") You can't follow a successful entangle with grappling techniques, except the neck, where you can Choke or Strangle (which requires a grapple of the neck to do it normally).

Beats (MA, p. 101) says if you have your opponent grappled barehanded or with a weapon (via Entangle, Hook, etc.), you may pull them off balance or attack their unarmed guard with a Beat. So here we see Entangle is considered an armed grapple, even if not an Armed Grapple.

Given the power of the technique in RAW, striking penalties might be appropriate here (and the "no mention uses default rules" is a pretty good point). Still, there's a LOT of evidence that both Hook and Entangle are grapples at Reach 1+, and that says to me "use the grappling rules."

Re: Entangle & Hit locations
 

I'm still confused...

So, you are saying it's a -4 to try entangle & -4 to strike the foot = -8?

Or is it a -4 to entangle & -2 to grapple the foot = -6?

For entagleing the foot it the location penalty (for just the foot) a -2 or a -4?

Re: Entangle & Hit locations
 

What you're seeing is disagreement. I see munin's point; there's some support for it. That would be the -4 for Entangle, PLUS the -4 for the foot.

I think that an alternate way would be to invoke the overall grappling rules for what is essentially a ranged grapple: Entangle at a base -4 and the grappling penalty for the foot at -2.

Re: Entangle & Hit locations
 

Yes. I see that. Ofcourse, that is the exact replay of the conversation in my head whitch promped me to post here on the forum. :)

Re: Entangle & Hit locations
 

Well I do have a certain book being written right now, and it will great Entangle as a grapple. BUT . . . munin's point and method has merit, so I won't say "he's wrong," but rather "that's not how I'd do it."

If you're looking for a hard answer, you'll want to PM RPK or Kromm.