[LT] Brigandine TL question
 

In Low-Tech, brigandine armor is listed as TL 4. I'm wondering if there was anything preventing its manufacture at earlier TLs, other than demand. To me, it doesn't seem like it requires large pieces of iron, so could it theoretically be created at TL 2 (or TL 1, if bronze or copper?)

Re: [LT] Brigandine TL question
 

What defines TL4 and would the 1300s be in it?

Re: [LT] Brigandine TL question
 

I think historical TLs are set based on actual appearance, not the point where arguably it would have been possible.

It similarly seems to me that mail and plates and jousting mail, in principle, could probably have been produced by a TL2 tech base.

Re: [LT] Brigandine TL question
 

Didn't the brigandine arrive from the east and thus existed there even before that, or was that a predecessor armor that's technically another GURPS category?

Re: [LT] Brigandine TL question
 

"The East" was often a different TL from "The West" - various other parts of the planet were also not the same TL. Year of occurrence needs to be compared with location and local TL average at the time.

Re: [LT] Brigandine TL question
 

The engineering involved doesn't seem to be much above turning a suit of scale armour inside-out so I don't think capacity is a problem ... I suspect it's just a matter of invention and could probably be done in bronze (or other metals) relatively easily (albiet with reduced effect in some cases).

Re: [LT] Brigandine TL question
 

If it's a tech issue, not a timeline issue, then yes. Although, TL 4 for the Mongol Empire?

Re: [LT] Brigandine TL question
 

Thanks guys, that kind of cleared it up for me a bit, I think. It really stood out as something that was of a later TL because ideas hadn't come together, and not because manufacturing hadn't sufficiently advanced.

Along a similar vein, would the cocept of sliding rivets and an arming doublet be possible at earlier TLs, assuming bronze plate armor? I'm just looking at what could be made with TL 1 or TL 2 manufacturing and material technology.

Re: [LT] Brigandine TL question
 

I have trouble telling the difference between Brigandine and Jack of Plates, so I'd just use Jack of Plates stats below TL 4.

Re: [LT] Brigandine TL question
 

Nicolle reckons that the brigandine came from the Middle East. He's wrong. It evolved from the coat of plates which evolved from the armoured surcoat. There is a clear line of progression that had no outside influence. The eastern version developed completely independently and there are clear differences between the two. The 14th century European versions are more like coats of plates than true brigandines but there is a lot of overlap between the two. Some call the intermediary version a corrazina. A true brigandine is very carefully tailored and is the only version that would be suitable for concealment. A jack of plates provides poor protection in comparison. I suppose it could be classed as a cheap quality brigandine.