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-   -   How good would Aluminum armor be? (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=85256)

Fred Brackin 11-26-2011 04:15 PM

Re: How good would Aluminum armor be?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DanHoward (Post 1284339)
Apparently the problem is that aluminium collapses under a lower temperature than steel, not that it burns better than steel. It does conduct heat a lot better which can be a problem on ships. Aluminium suffers more from metal fatigue than steel.

I don't think so. Aluminum is the fuel in thermite and iron oxide si the oxidizer. I think that says "aluminum burns better than steel" pretty clearly.

DanHoward 11-26-2011 04:19 PM

Re: How good would Aluminum armor be?
 
Aluminium is only useful as thermite because the particle size is very small. It doesn't react the same if it is armour plate.

http://www.g2mil.com/aluminum.htm

"Aluminum and Iron will burn as will any other metal, if it has a sufficiently sized particle. For both metals it is a very small size. A single plate will simply react on the outer layers however the outer skin will be covered in ash from the combustion and protect the inner plate."

Apparently, all of the so-called examples of burning aluminium armour have turned out to be the contents of the vehicle burning, not the metal itself.

Fred Brackin 11-26-2011 04:28 PM

Re: How good would Aluminum armor be?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DanHoward (Post 1284388)
Aluminium is only useful as thermite because the particle size is very small. It doesn't react the same if it is armour plate.

http://www.g2mil.com/aluminum.htm

"Aluminum and Iron will burn as will any other metal, if it has a sufficiently sized particle. For both metals it is a very small size. A single plate will simply react on the outer layers however the outer skin will be covered in ash from the combustion and protect the inner plate."

Apparently, all of the so-called examples of burning aluminium armour have turned out to be the contents of the vehicle burning, not the metal itself.

Or.....

"Aluminum is more reactive than Steel,"

Sometimes you can overthink these things.

DanHoward 11-26-2011 05:37 PM

Re: How good would Aluminum armor be?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin (Post 1284393)
Or.....

"Aluminum is more reactive than Steel,"

Sometimes you can overthink these things.

It is only reactive until the surface forms a protective barrier of oxide.

roguebfl 11-26-2011 05:42 PM

Re: How good would Aluminum armor be?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DanHoward (Post 1284416)
It is only reactive until the surface forms a protective barrier of oxide.

Yeah a big differnace, Aluminum Oxide creates a protective barrier, Iron Oxide as a corrosive effect.

oldgringo2001 11-26-2011 06:31 PM

Re: How good would Aluminum armor be?
 
On the modern battlefield and on any higher-tech version, aluminum armor is a BAD IDEA.

Low-tech aluminum personal armor is an oxymoron. It isn't available at all until late TL5 and then it's very expensive. The Washington Monument has a cap made of aluminum, which was more expensive than silver in 1884.

Of course, if you want to build a civilization of intelligent cockroaches after the big-oops, all those non-biodegradable aluminum cans provide a practically-endless source of metal. And maybe some smuggler is making a fortune "recycling" old cans to Microworld.

Fred Brackin 11-26-2011 06:51 PM

Re: How good would Aluminum armor be?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DanHoward (Post 1284416)
It is only reactive until the surface forms a protective barrier of oxide.

No, the total combustion of some aluminum structures is well-documented and not just the military examples quoted in the article you seem to be ignoring. It's also seen quite commonly in civilian aircraft disasters.

Try this one for a simple example.

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=22676

The skin isn't just melted, it's burned to ashes. That doesn't happen to the steel body panels of automobiles in simialr situations. The surface layer of aluminum oxide didn't protect it. All aluminum in an oxygen atmosphere already has such a surface layer anyway. Aluminium is _that_ reactive.

Anthony 11-26-2011 06:57 PM

Re: How good would Aluminum armor be?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin (Post 1284436)
No, the total combustion of some aluminum structures is well-documented and not just the military examples quoted in the article you seem to be ignoring.

The question is whether the aluminum would burn in a fire that isn't already hot enough to completely destroy the structure. It doesn't specifically matter if the aluminum is destroyed in a fire (if it would have been melted anyway, it's not much worse to have it be ash), it matters whether the aluminum is making the fire worse. In your example, it's a fuel fire that consumed the aluminum, not an aluminum fire.

Fred Brackin 11-26-2011 09:44 PM

Re: How good would Aluminum armor be?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1284438)
The question is whether the aluminum would burn in a fire that isn't already hot enough to completely destroy the structure. It doesn't specifically matter if the aluminum is destroyed in a fire (if it would have been melted anyway, it's not much worse to have it be ash), it matters whether the aluminum is making the fire worse. In your example, it's a fuel fire that consumed the aluminum, not an aluminum fire.

But the aluminum didn't just melt. It did burn. That releases heat pretty much by definition. I have trouble seeing how more fuel and hotter fire doesn't equal more destruction.

Anthony 11-26-2011 11:42 PM

Re: How good would Aluminum armor be?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin (Post 1284478)
But the aluminum didn't just melt. It did burn. That releases heat pretty much by definition. I have trouble seeing how more fuel and hotter fire doesn't equal more destruction.

Something cannot be more than completely destroyed...


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