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doulos05 12-29-2014 05:16 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1852637)
"You never noticed the game rule that is the draft?"

No. That sounds like a meta-issue from description though.

No, it's pretty clear that your choices, should you fail to get into your chosen profession, are "get drafted" or "become a drifter". The rule's name is "The Draft", the result is being forced to join a branch of the military (or possibly civil service, but generally you end up in the military), and the only way to avoid it is to become a vagabond. It behaves like a draft (assignment in a draft is "random", though it's weighted towards the neediest services) and the consequences of avoiding it are that you have to become the equivalent of a hobo. The only thing missing is the legal fallout of "dodging" the draft later on in life (i.e. when you're a PC). It's present in every life-paths style variant of Traveller under the same name.

Hans Rancke-Madsen 12-29-2014 05:48 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Agemegos (Post 1852629)
Tradition, maybe? ...

In which case it would be one world out of the Imperium's 11,000. An atypical world. Scarcely enough to make the Imperial marine the Imperium-wide poster boy for Imperial service.


Hans

Hans Rancke-Madsen 12-29-2014 05:52 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1852637)
"You never noticed the game rule that is the draft?"

No. That sounds like a meta-issue from description though.

Exactly my point. The draft in character generation makes very little sense as an accurate reflection of the setting (and I refrained from saying 'no sense' and 'any setting' only to avoid digression), so I've come up with a tentative meta-game explanation (Which has some iffy points itself, but it's the best I've been able to come up with, and a lot better than nothing).


Hans

Hans Rancke-Madsen 12-29-2014 05:54 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doulos05 (Post 1852696)
The only thing missing is the legal fallout of "dodging" the draft later on in life (i.e. when you're a PC). It's present in every life-paths style variant of Traveller under the same name.

Another thing missing is the huge number of careers (i.e. all of them) where an actual Imperial draft makes little or no sense.


Hans

Agemegos 12-29-2014 07:08 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltron64 (Post 1851959)
To the people of the Third Imperium, an Imperial Marine clad in Battledress with cutlass in one hand and plasma gun or a gauss rifle in the other is as quintessential and iconic an image to them as a Knight in Shining Armor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1852701)
In which case it would be one world out of the Imperium's 11,000. An atypical world. Scarcely enough to make the Imperial marine the Imperium-wide poster boy for Imperial service.

There are other quintessential and iconic images than poster boys for the Imperial Service. For a start, poster boys for the Imperial Marines Corps. US marines do a pretty strong line in iconic images despites being drastically outnumbered by federal civil servants.

Hans Rancke-Madsen 12-29-2014 07:19 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Agemegos (Post 1852715)
There are other quintessential and iconic images than poster boys for the Imperial Service. For a start, poster boys for the Imperial Marines Corps. US marines do a pretty strong line in iconic images despites being drastically outnumbered by federal civil servants.

But what I was questioning was whether an Imperial marine in full battle armor carrying a lethal weapon would be as quintessential and iconic an image to all the people of the Third Imperium as a Knight in Shining Armor.

To some? Possibly. To most? That I doubt.


Hans

Voltron64 12-29-2014 09:05 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1852717)
But what I was questioning was whether an Imperial marine in full battle armor carrying a lethal weapon would be as quintessential and iconic an image to all the people of the Third Imperium as a Knight in Shining Armor.

To some? Possibly. To most? That I doubt.


Hans

Probably to a significant amount at least.

I also think it should be stated that In-Universe, the concept of a Battledress Marine goes back to the dawn of the Imperium and probably as far back to the 2nd Imperium or even the Interstellar Wars.

jason taylor 12-29-2014 09:37 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1852717)
But what I was questioning was whether an Imperial marine in full battle armor carrying a lethal weapon would be as quintessential and iconic an image to all the people of the Third Imperium as a Knight in Shining Armor.

To some? Possibly. To most? That I doubt.


Hans

The main picture I had of knights when I was young was Ivanhoe, and Otto of the Silver Hand. Most of the knights in those were thugs. And that was Romantic literature.

jason taylor 12-29-2014 11:45 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Gungnir Highport:

Jointly built and maintained by a number of powers in the area as well as the SWC. It is a free harbor designed to ensure that import/export not interfered with to much by the turbulent planetary politics of Gungnir. With this in mind, policing is provided by off-world mercenaries as well as the Confederation Police and the constabularies of the different powers with extra-territorial rights over sections of the Highport. It is fabled, like similar starports on several Balkanized worlds as a center of diplomacy and espionage though that function has the competition of Greve Henrik II university which in any case owns considerable interests on the station. The Imperium maintains a full embassy on Gungnir Highport, both to protect it's citizens and keep an eye on local politics and trade. A few corporations also maintain extraterritorial privileges over sections including both Gremstaatbetrif and Fortarn. The central government is the Ferbundberg which handles such things as extradition negotiations and municipal infrastructure and other common interests.

Agemegos 12-29-2014 01:25 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1852717)
But what I was questioning was whether an Imperial marine in full battle armor carrying a lethal weapon would be as quintessential and iconic an image to all the people of the Third Imperium as a Knight in Shining Armor.

To some? Possibly. To most? That I doubt.

But the knight in shining armour is itself not a global image. It's unfamiliar in the far East and most of Africa, alien in India and Pakistan, hostile in the Near East…. An image doesn't have to be as iconic and quintessential as that. Besides, the worlds of the Imperium share a thousand years of Imperial history with Imperial marines in it, mostly on their side.

jason taylor 01-01-2015 08:01 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Agemegos (Post 1852862)
But the knight in shining armour is itself not a global image. It's unfamiliar in the far East and most of Africa, alien in India and Pakistan, hostile in the Near East…. An image doesn't have to be as iconic and quintessential as that. Besides, the worlds of the Imperium share a thousand years of Imperial history with Imperial marines in it, mostly on their side.

Indians have the Kshatriya. Who also by coincidence wore shinning armor if not as much.

Voltron64 01-05-2015 03:58 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Law Level Clarifications

Law level typically refers to arms control in the society, not how restrictive it is overall, exceptions withstanding.

Portable energy weapons (Law Level 2) refer to things like FGMPs and PGMPs. Laser Pistols and Carbines are considered more as light assault weapons (Law Level 4) with Laser Rifles as automatic weapons (Law Level 3).

jason taylor 01-05-2015 06:41 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Venturers Guild Badge:

This is the logo of one traders guild. It is a triangle with a silver stag on the bottom, and a crossed silver caudaucus and spear with a stylized starship carrying a silver key in the middle. On a dark blue field. With the motto pete tibi tradere in divitiis in procul fera custodire ab armis (seek your wealth in the far wild to keep by your gallant arms).

The caudaucus represents Mercury of course, the spear represents Mars, the stag, Diana, and the key Pluto. The starship speaks for itself. And the motto is another way of saying, "a ship gets you a cargo, a gun helps you keep it".

Drifter 01-05-2015 07:03 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltron64 (Post 1855376)
Law Level Clarifications

Law level typically refers to arms control in the society, not how restrictive it is overall, exceptions withstanding.

Portable energy weapons (Law Level 2) refer to things like FGMPs and PGMPs. Laser Pistols and Carbines are considered more as light assault weapons (Law Level 4) with Laser Rifles as automatic weapons (Law Level 3).

I've always used it as both a guide to weapons AND how likely it is you'll have to talk to an official; i.e. how restrictive. With Exceptions.

Drifter 01-05-2015 07:05 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1855435)
Venturers Guild Badge:

This is the logo of one traders guild. It is a triangle with a silver stag on the bottom, and a crossed silver caudaucus and spear with a stylized starship carrying a silver key in the middle. On a dark blue field. With the motto pete tibi tradere in divitiis in procul fera custodire ab armis (seek your wealth in the far wild to keep by your gallant arms).

The caudaucus represents Mercury of course, the spear represents Mars, the stag, Diana, and the key Pluto. The starship speaks for itself. And the motto is another way of saying, "a ship gets you a cargo, a gun helps you keep it".

Thats some motto to embroider on your jacket :)

jason taylor 01-05-2015 08:08 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifter (Post 1855439)
Thats some motto to embroider on your jacket :)

It is from a place with a tradition of micro-heraldry just to begin with. Another way is to put half the words on top and half on bottom. Or in a circle around. And in a full size flag or similar there would not be a problem. And of course only the Latin is meant to be shown on the logo, not the translation. Which requires only eleven words.

Hans Rancke-Madsen 01-06-2015 12:18 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1855466)
It is from a place with a tradition of micro-heraldry just to begin with. Another way is to put half the words on top and half on bottom. Or in a circle around. And in a full size flag or similar there would not be a problem. And of course only the Latin is meant to be shown on the logo, not the translation. Which requires only eleven words.

Such homilies are usually abbreviated for mottos. I'm not well enough versed in Latin to work it out, but I'd expect the actual motto to be the Latin for "Ship gets, gun keeps".


Hans

jason taylor 01-06-2015 12:34 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1855552)
Such homilies are usually abbreviated for mottos. I'm not well enough versed in Latin to work it out, but I'd expect the actual motto to be the Latin for "Ship gets, gun keeps".


Hans

How about:

comitiis per navigatione, per arma custodiunt

(gain by voyage, keep by arms)

Astromancer 01-25-2015 02:06 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1279465)
The USA probably does get a disproportionate amount of attention for one reason: it's influence on the development of the Imperial bill of rights, which is derived from that of the Sylean Federation, which is derived from that of the Rule of Man, which is derived from that of the Terran Confederation, which is derived from the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Even disproportionate attention does not necessarily amount to very much, though.


Hans

If I haven't said it earlier, I'll say it now, the USA would be seen in a negative light by the 3I. Our virtues are scary to them, our good stuff a threat, and our vices all to easy for an Imperial Aristocratic Society to line up and mock ferociously. If nothing else they can steal all the wittiest attacks the French, Brits, and Germans, have made on us and recycle them.

Astromancer 01-25-2015 02:09 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1280027)
If I recall Taoism was sort of a tangential creed having a cultural position similar to mendicants in the West and dervishes in Islam. A Taoist priest might get an invitation from an Emperor but wouldn't become a court priest.

My memory could be wrong though.

I say your menory is good.

Astromancer 01-25-2015 02:11 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by combatmedic (Post 1281384)
Astromancer-


I suggest that you read more about Hamilton. He attacked Jefferson for T.J.s irreligion. Hamilton wanted a more Christian, not less Christian, nation. He proposed the creation of a Christian Constitutional Society.

I never denied Hamilton's faith. He however wanted a secular government.

Hans Rancke-Madsen 01-25-2015 02:49 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1863104)
If I haven't said it earlier, I'll say it now, the USA would be seen in a negative light by the 3I. Our virtues are scary to them, our good stuff a threat, and our vices all to easy for an Imperial Aristocratic Society to line up and mock ferociously. If nothing else they can steal all the wittiest attacks the French, Brits, and Germans, have made on us and recycle them.

I've answered that one before. The virtues are not scary to the Imperium, because the well-known "fact" that democracy doesn't work on the interstellar scale insulates the Imperium from any serious consequences of supporting them. And Cleon HAD to pay lip service to these rights because the Sylean Federation had a Bill of Rights and he had to persuade the populations of the Federation worlds that they wouldn't lose them.

And let's not forget that one of the few canonical statements we have about Imperial rights is that nobles are equal under the law.

Mind you, the general knowledge about the US would be only a tiny bit as much as the knowledge about the Sylean Federation, and that wouldn't be very much.


Hans

Astromancer 01-26-2015 06:59 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
I think Terran history would be very likely to be fascinating to the 3I because of its drama. Much of Villani history is dull and or repetitive. They lived in a socially engineered society meant to be static and unchanging. That makes for dull history.

Terra's history has a dramatic quality because of its changes and growth. People will seek this stuff out in the same way they seek out exciting fiction.

Besides, Traveler has nearly always been "Brits in Space!!!!!!" It's the British Empire and a mixture of Victorian and Stuart tropes and stereotypes. The "Yanks in Space" line was always meaningless. The British Empire is clearly important in the 3I.

Astromancer 01-26-2015 07:04 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Paycocks

These are gigantic genetically engineered Peacocks (and peahens) massing about five tons. They are used in parades for the spectacle. These are healthy, tough, and highly flexible birds. They are flightless, but they run well and can travel long distances with little stress to themselves. They are adaptable to a surprisingly wide variety of climates and terrains.

The females are easier to manage, as in many species, and make impressively good all-terrain vehicles. They are often used as such.


Many crooks like using paycocks because they are hard to detect transit. If you
doubt that just ask how easy it is to use satellites to find an Elephant as compared to a fusion powered antigrav vehicle.

jason taylor 01-26-2015 12:41 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1863106)
I never denied Hamilton's faith. He however wanted a secular government.

"Secular" can mean "non-ecclesiastical" or it can mean irreligious and the ambiguity causes difficulties. When the House of Lords is called "Lords Spiritual and Secular" it means "Bishops and Nobles" not "Christians and Atheists."

Which is peripheral to what Hamilton actually wanted except insofar as it involves understanding what a given person would mean by "secular".

jason taylor 01-26-2015 12:44 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1863130)

Mind you, the general knowledge about the US would be only a tiny bit as much as the knowledge about the Sylean Federation, and that wouldn't be very much.


Hans


We have a surprising amount of knowledge about a hick town in the Balkans that worshiped a female bookworm and another hick town that was founded by a man who murdered his brother.

jason taylor 01-26-2015 12:49 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1863425)
I think Terran history would be very likely to be fasinating to the 3I because of its drama. Much of Villani history is dull and or repetative. They lived in a socially engineered society meant to be static and unchanging. That makes for dull history.

Vilani history as a whole. The rise and fall of dynasties and their competition for power, the struggle of frontier folk to survive, the secret societies of Khagarim, etc can make for interesting history. Oriental societies have been mined for tales often enough(the Shen Yu-sort of like Chinese ballet-are doing a tour nearby; I wish I had enough money to see it).

Hans Rancke-Madsen 01-26-2015 03:07 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1863532)
We have a surprising amount of knowledge about a hick town in the Balkans that worshiped a female bookworm and another hick town that was founded by a man who murdered his brother.

Oh, the knowledge would be available in the data banks. But I doubt very much that it would be general (i.e. am absolutely convinced that it wouldn't be) .


Hans

jason taylor 01-26-2015 03:41 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1863594)
Oh, the knowledge would be available in the data banks. But I doubt very much that it would be general (i.e. am absolutely convinced that it wouldn't be) .


Hans

I would say that there is no correlation between the size of a culture and it's influence, and the influence of those two hick towns was already so great by the time of the ISW as to make them pretty much assured wherever Solomani go.

Hans Rancke-Madsen 01-26-2015 04:10 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1863614)
I would say that there is no correlation between the size of a culture and it's influence, and the influence of those two hick towns was already so great by the time of the ISW as to make them pretty much assured wherever Solomani go.

I would say that I don't understand what you think 'general knowledge' means and vice versa. Perhaps I'm using the term incorrectly? I'm talking about walking up to John Q. Public and asking him what he knows about Athens and Rome and the USA and the Sylean Federation. Whatever he answers, that's what I mean by 'the general knowledge of the subject'.


Hans

jason taylor 01-26-2015 06:20 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1863634)
I would say that I don't understand what you think 'general knowledge' means and vice versa. Perhaps I'm using the term incorrectly? I'm talking about walking up to John Q. Public and asking him what he knows about Athens and Rome and the USA and the Sylean Federation. Whatever he answers, that's what I mean by 'the general knowledge of the subject'.


Hans

Maybe I overestimated John Q Public. I assumed it would they would be household names in John Q Cultured which might or might not have overlap with John Q public.

Drifter 01-27-2015 01:59 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1863692)
Maybe I overestimated John Q Public. I assumed it would they would be household names in John Q Cultured which might or might not have overlap with John Q public.

Remember how big a period we are talking about. Thousands of years have passed, and despite Vilani cultural boredom, hundreds of years of the dramas of the Long Night, Aslan invasions, the rise and fall of pocket empires and the struggles for and against the Third Imperium.

I recently was taken aback by several people I know to be well educated, and successful, not having a clue who the Sumerians were. Why such a gap in their knowledge? Typical Americans? Or they have more to identify with history and cultures closer to "home", and might have come across the name Sumer at some point, and promptly forgot about it after the test was over?

A typical Mora citizen, well educated, might have read about Britain and the US, even Rome and Greece and Sumer, but probably don't remember them any more than the details of the Wilmot Proviso or the conquests of Amenemhat I. Instead they would read about the colonization period of Mora, the rise of the 3I, the wars with the Vargr and the Zhodani and the great nobles and warriors of those heroic days.

Astromancer 01-27-2015 06:55 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
English as a Classical Language

This is kind of obvious both from the settings as given, the fairly goofy map names, and other accumulated artifacts of the Traveler Universe. The question is how do they use what they have.

I suggest that their great model for refined prose style would be P.G. Wodehouse. Yes really. The man was a master prose stylist, it's one of the reasons he's still funny. It's very hard to find a author who is both as readable as Wodehouse and as refined a technical master of English prose. Plus you can get school kids from an Aristocratic society to read him because the jokes are still funny to them. Yes Really, the children of the aristocracy would largely understand the social details of what's happening to P.G. W.'s protagonists, and the bits that are harder to understand would be great chances for teaching about the limitations of Democracy. Which is drummed into the heads of as many school children as possible.

Astromancer 01-27-2015 07:08 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Aristocrats as Protagonists

My basic point here is the one I made years ago durring the playtest for Nobles, Nobles are used as protagonists in the majority of popular entertainment in the 3I.

There would be many reasons for this. some of them would be best explained by reading Snobbery with Violence: English Crime Stories and their Audience. Nobles are well placed pragmatically to have adventures. Nobles are less controvesial figures when you want to syndicate your in other areas of the 3I. Imperial censors tend to be more worried about non-Noble protagonists for a wide varriety of reasons some of them actually practical. Nobles are less tied down to one place and given more respect in most parts of the 3I, thus they can move more freely about without violating local norms. Inertia thus makes Nobles the heros of most popular fiction for much the same reasons as White Males tend to be the protagonists in the majority of American popular fiction.

This has wider cultural effects. Afterall, if you get the automatic rank of hero of the story, it does alter how people see you.

Hans Rancke-Madsen 01-27-2015 01:36 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1863886)
Yes Really, the children of the aristocracy would largely understand the social details of what's happening to P.G. W.'s protagonists...

We think alike, you and I. Here's a bunch of notes about a setting feature that I've been working on:
The Idlers' Guild
by Hans Rancke-Madsen
(Idlers' Union?)

The Idlers' Guild is a club for young upper class men and women in Credo on Regina. It is, conceptually, very much like the Drones Club of P.G. Wodehouse, whose stories can be found in the club library along with those of a lot of imitators.

Despite the club articles, members are allowed to have jobs as long as they never refer to them on club premises.

A more generalized version of this ban is "no serious topics of conversation in the club".

The main qualification for membership is being a good sport, although there are a number of sourpusses who are tolerated for various reasons (notably being legacies, i.e. children of former members).

One popular club aphorism is "Sibling to a spacer and fellow to a lord, if he be found worthy". The works of Rudyard Kipling and his imitators are also popular among club members.

"Spuds, rolls, and pastries." (Expy "Eggs, beans, and crumpets".)

'Spuds, rolls, and pastries' is a collective term for members of the club. Each member has a different explanation for what defines a spud, a roll, and a pastry and consequently which member is what.
Hans

Astromancer 01-28-2015 06:37 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1864041)
We think alike, you and I. Here's a bunch of notes about a setting feature that I've been working on:
The Idlers' Guild
by Hans Rancke-Madsen
(Idlers' Union?)

The Idlers' Guild is a club for young upper class men and women in Credo on Regina. It is, conceptually, very much like the Drones Club of P.G. Wodehouse, whose stories can be found in the club library along with those of a lot of imitators.

Despite the club articles, members are allowed to have jobs as long as they never refer to them on club premises.

A more generalized version of this ban is "no serious topics of conversation in the club".

The main qualification for membership is being a good sport, although there are a number of sourpusses who are tolerated for various reasons (notably being legacies, i.e. children of former members).

One popular club aphorism is "Sibling to a spacer and fellow to a lord, if he be found worthy". The works of Rudyard Kipling and his imitators are also popular among club members.

"Spuds, rolls, and pastries." (Expy "Eggs, beans, and crumpets".)

'Spuds, rolls, and pastries' is a collective term for members of the club. Each member has a different explanation for what defines a spud, a roll, and a pastry and consequently which member is what.
Hans

Good stuff. And yes, if they read Wodehouse they'd find Kipling and like his pro-imperial views. They'd find Wilde too. They'd like his elequence and ignore his politics. His trial and fate would be used in still more anti-Democracy sceeds, although the real events are more of a showcase of aristocratic corruption on many levels.

jason taylor 01-28-2015 10:38 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
I've sometimes wondered if an extremely high-tech society might have the result of inducing a general aristocratic mindset simply by having the option of automatizing the more unpleasant chores and leaving sophant labor for jobs that are either considered to have a cachet, or to subtle to automatize. Or both. In a sense it would be more moral then earlier aristocracies as it does not depend on parasitism off lower classes within society or plunder of other societies.

There would for instance be less of a "work-ethic" and more of a "live well" ethic. There would be more of an emphasis on things like honor. Security, military, and emergency services of course are hard to automatize as they have the need of sophant supervision to keep them under control. Making Proud Warrior Races credible.

Astromancer 01-28-2015 03:22 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1864479)
I've sometimes wondered if an extremely high-tech society might have the result of inducing a general aristocratic mindset simply by having the option of automatizing the more unpleasant chores and leaving sophant labor for jobs that are either considered to have a cachet, or to subtle to automatize. Or both. In a sense it would be more moral then earlier aristocracies as it does not depend on parasitism off lower classes within society or plunder of other societies.

There would for instance be less of a "work-ethic" and more of a "live well" ethic. There would be more of an emphasis on things like honor. Security, military, and emergency services of course are hard to automatize as they have the need of sophant supervision to keep them under control. Making Proud Warrior Races credible.

Aristocracy needs someone to exclude. If eveyone lived well, then you'd get something new. It would have some relationship to Aristocracy, but an odd one.

jason taylor 01-28-2015 07:11 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1864582)
Aristocracy needs someone to exclude. If eveyone lived well, then you'd get something new. It would have some relationship to Aristocracy, but an odd one.

I was speaking of the comparison in ethos.

SteveS 01-28-2015 07:33 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1863425)
I think Terran history would be very likely to be fasinating to the 3I because of its drama. Much of Villani history is dull and or repetative. They lived in a socially engineered society meant to be static and unchanging. That makes for dull history.

I disagree that Vilani history would be dull. Even if Vilani society is fairly static on a grand scale, Vilani history is so long that there's a vast quantity of history there to mine for interesting stuff: the pacification wars, political struggles between the core administration of the Ziru Sirka and the people at the fringes of empire who had a frontier to maintain, thousands of years of local history on each of thousands of worlds, stories of Vilani heroes who did great things the way they were supposed to be done, stories of rogue-heroes who did great things in spite of doing them the wrong way, and so forth.

The reason Vilani history looks dull to us (as readers of published Traveller game material) is that there's very little that's been material published about the Ziru Sirka. All we really have is enough back-story to support the published settings: the 1100-ish Third Imperium, Milieu 0, the Interstellar Wars era, etc.
Quote:

Terra's history has a dramatic quality because of its changes and growth. People will seek this stuf out in the same way they seek out exciting fiction.
The reason people would be interested in Terra's history is that Terra is the original home of Humaniti, and the home of the Solomani who improbably conquered the Ziru Sirka -- not because the affairs of a single world on the rim is something that would stand out on its own in a history of 11000 years of human civilization.
Quote:

Besides, Traveler has nearly always been "Brits in Space!!!!!!" It's the British Empire and a mixture of Victorian and Stuart tropes and stereotypes. The "Yanks in Space" line was always meaningless. The British Empire is clearly important in the 3I.
Besides Brits in Space (the Age of Sail feel that comes from communications being limited to the speed of a starship) and Yanks in Space (which comes from so many Traveller writers living in the US), Traveller is also Imperial Romans in Space, because the Roman Empire is the long-lived empire most familiar to us.

Astromancer 01-29-2015 06:36 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
The High Festivals


The high festivals are a series of artistic festivals arraged along the major routes of the interstellar Grand Tour. These Festivals occure once every few years and feature all sorts of art, entertainment, and Balls of varying grandure and exclusivity. The timing generally reflects the patterns of the Grand Tour itself and is meant to allow those touring to take in large numbers of festivals in sequence.

The main functions of these Festivals, other than the local tourist ecconomy, are to function A) as a marriage mart, bringing together nobles from the far cornners of the 3I (and thus keeping the culture more unified) and B) as a means of channeling provincial artistic talent to the Galactic Capital by that talent getting seen in an important venue (which also makes the 3I's culture more unified). While each festival celebrates the local culture/s the blending and mixing of both nobles and talents stengthens the 3I while gently venting provincial resentments.

Many groups use the festivals as cover for their activities. People come and go to these festivals from across the 3I and further. Some folks come to these festivals from areas beyond the knowledge of the Imperial Survey! And many of the people coming to these festivals are nearly as colorful and loud as a festival themselves. The advantages to those who want to travel unseen are obvious. The average festival is as noisy and hectic as Mardi Gras squared! Thus any plot, sceme, or skullduggery, can have a wild, crazed, yet glamorous, background.

jason taylor 01-30-2015 07:46 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1864838)
The High Festivals


The high festivals are a series of artistic festivals arraged along the major routes of the interstellar Grand Tour. These Festivals occure once every few years and feature all sorts of art, entertainment, and Balls of varying grandure and exclusivity. The timing generally reflects the patterns of the Grand Tour itself and is meant to allow those touring to take in large numbers of festivals in sequence.

The main functions of these Festivals, other than the local tourist ecconomy, are to function A) as a marriage mart, bringing together nobles from the far cornners of the 3I (and thus keeping the culture more unified) and B) as a means of channeling provincial artistic talent to the Galactic Capital by that talent getting seen in an important venue (which also makes the 3I's culture more unified). While each festival celebrates the local culture/s the blending and mixing of both nobles and talents stengthens the 3I while gently venting provincial resentments.

Many groups use the festivals as cover for their activities. People come and go to these festivals from across the 3I and further. Some folks come to these festivals from areas beyond the knowledge of the Imperial Survey! And many of the people coming to these festivals are nearly as colorful and loud as a festival themselves. The advantages to those who want to travel unseen are obvious. The average festival is as noisy and hectic as Mardi Gras squared! Thus any plot, sceme, or skullduggery, can have a wild, crazed, yet glamorous, background.

I'll take that one.

Hans Rancke-Madsen 01-31-2015 01:13 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1864838)
The high festivals are a series of artistic festivals arraged along the major routes of the interstellar Grand Tour. These Festivals occure once every few years and feature all sorts of art, entertainment, and Balls of varying grandure and exclusivity. The timing generally reflects the patterns of the Grand Tour itself and is meant to allow those touring to take in large numbers of festivals in sequence.

There are probably different levels of grand tours. Each sector would have one and there would be a Great-Grand Tour of the whole Imperium going from sector capital to sector capital. Not every noble would want/could afford to send their children on the big tour.

Unlike the participants of TD's Grand Tour, nobles coming from or visiting Behind the Claw would go through Corridor both ways. Perhaps the route mostly visits different systems in either direction.


Hans

Astromancer 01-31-2015 02:26 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1865513)
There are probably different levels of grand tours. Each sector would have one and there would be a Great-Grand Tour of the whole Imperium going from sector capital to sector capital. Not every noble would want/could afford to send their children on the big tour.

Unlike the participants of TD's Grand Tour, nobles coming from or visiting Behind the Claw would go through Corridor both ways. Perhaps the route mostly visits different systems in either direction.


Hans

I agree that their would be multiple levels of "Grand Tours" if for no other reason than the need of certain groups to understand different things. Some nobles would need to have a broad view of the whole Imperium. Some of these Nobles might be sponsered, hired, or otherwise get their tour paid for by those that need them schooled. Some groups would take more focused "Grand Tours" because of their need for more in depht knowlege.

Hans Rancke-Madsen 01-31-2015 03:56 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1865640)
Some nobles would need to have a broad view of the whole Imperium. Some of these Nobles might be sponsered, hired, or otherwise get their tour paid for by those that need them schooled. Some groups would take more focused "Grand Tours" because of their need for more in depht knowlege.

Traditionally, a grand tour was considered part of a young gentleman's upbringing and was paid for by his father. I can't see anybody other than family paying for a grand tour.


Hans

Astromancer 02-01-2015 01:23 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1865665)
Traditionally, a grand tour was considered part of a young gentleman's upbringing and was paid for by his father. I can't see anybody other than family paying for a grand tour.


Hans

A farsighted patron who both wants a seasoned ally and the gratitude of the parents would have many reasons to send someone on the tour. Also the tour has certain benefits in keeping the culture of the 3I unified. The Imperial bureaucracy would find ways of getting useful or potentially useful young nobles sent on the tour. Young Nobles are raw matterials that require shaping for the good of the state. Fine manners and a bit of sophistocation are so much cheaper that battle cruisers, and properly deployed, more effective.

Hans Rancke-Madsen 02-01-2015 01:44 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1865848)
A farsighted patron who both wants a seasoned ally and the gratitude of the parents would have many reasons to send someone on the tour.

Either we're talking about just the Imperial nobles, in which case they are the social equivalent of Earth kings and emperors (with incomes to match), or we're also talking about planetary level nobles, in which case a far-sighted patron can just cherry-pick a suitable candidate from the slew of noble offspring that have already done the grand tour and returned home.

Quote:

Also the tour has certain benefits in keeping the culture of the 3I unified. The Imperial bureaucracy would find ways of getting useful or potentially useful young nobles sent on the tour.
You mean, there's a policy decision and an assigned budget to make the Imperial Bureaucracy go to the trouble? Maybe even quotas to fill? Because while I can see the rare insightful philanthropic Imperial bureaucrat (of independent means) doing something like that on his own centicred just for the patriotic love of the Imperium, I really don't see it as a common feature of any bureaucracy.

A grand tour can be had for a couple of hundred thousand credits per year (more if you're not staying several months on each world on the itiniary). Even rich people would think twice before spending that sort of money on a stranger, however promising.


Hans

Astromancer 02-01-2015 01:48 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Euneican Grand Spring Festival, Part 1

I'm basically setting up a given High Festival with plenty of local color and plot hooks. Most High Festivals won't be this rich in adventure seeds.

Euneica is a planet that circles the star Hylas in the system of Hylas and Heracle. Unlike most festivals it lasts six years rather than a month or two and there are thirty years between the festivals.

Hylas is the smaller and cooler star and it's orbit around Heracle is called the GrandYear by the locals. A GrandYear takes about 36 Earth years. The Grand Summer is a short period of brutal heat and storms and the GrandAutuum is unpleasent for several reasons. Through most of the cycle the 18 Earth year long GrandWinter the equitorial areas of Euneicia is temperate and lovely. The planet has been seeded with terrestrial sea life and is a source of luxury seafoods like lobster, scallops, and many highly sought after caviars. A wide variety of botanical extracts are also gained from the planet. Certain Imperial agencies have exclusive contracts to buy some of these, many of these extracts are kept as secret as possible with large areas of the planet off limits. Spies other use the festival to sneak into these areas.

Durring the GrandSpring a large archipelago of islands gains a mild westcoast marine climate. the local fauna is very safe and the local flora is brilliantly colorful and lovely to see. The natives (a minor human race I'll detail later) has a series of religious festivals in this area at this time. The local nobles, noticing that they were close to three major transit routes durring Grand spring, decided to advertise the festivals as a Galactic Mardi Gras. The locals do celebrate in masks and with elaborate dances and rituals. The locals soon saw the value of letting tourists pay for their festivals by letting them see the lower rituals while reserving the high hallows for the initiated alone.

Once this festival got going the local nobles invited in circuses, puppet shows and other forms of entertainment suited to the original festivals.

(More Later)

Astromancer 02-01-2015 02:07 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Euneican Grand Spring Festival, Part 2

Once this festival got going the local nobles invited in circuses, puppet shows and other forms of entertainment suited to the original festivals. The Imperial Bureauracy, seeing the possiblities of useing the the festival in it's long term plans. Sponcered Opera and Theatre festivals as well as a variety of gallery showings of all kinds. Five Hundred Seventy six years later the festival is six years of art, performance, balls, dances, parties, circuses, parades, and confusion!

Every kind of entertainer, artist, con man, grifter, huckster, hussler, hooker, freak, bonviant, diletante, coutier, spy, agent-provocateur, and wannabe, shows up for the fun. Many people spend almost all of the six years in masks and costumes. Cos-Play is nearly a religion! Those locals celebrating their festivals seem to dissociate and become a variety of religous figures and archetypal ideas over the period. They are not the only people who seem to change their identities with the clothing!

Many mystics show up for the festival, which after all started as a religious festival. The locals admire piety in others even when they don't share their faith/religion. Outsiders are allowed to seek intitiation into some of the mysteries of the Euneican faith. This has led to mass pilgrimages taking place to Euneica durring the festival and giving Euneica a reputation much like Eleusis in Classical antiquity.


The presence of these mystics is used by the various Imperial secret agencies to hide important aspects of their interest in the planet and its festival. Those agencies working with psionics have several important hidden bases on the planet.

Astromancer 02-13-2015 12:34 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Euneican Grand Spring Festival, Part 3

The local minor human race is know for their good looks, longevity, martial arts skills, and their love of art, especially music and dance. At least that's what they are know for to most of the galaxy. To the inner circles of Imperial intellegence, that uses this world for a research base, the local Minor Human race is known as a terrifing anomoly, a race of humans successfully genetically engineered to enhance their psionic abilities by a group of mad men obcessed with the works of J.R.R.Tolkien!

The Quendi fit the generall description of Tolkien's elves and seem to have been designed to fit the stories. Luckily, Tolkien is known but obscure and the backgrounds of his stories are only known to a few specialist scholars. This wouldn't be important except that the Quendi are the longest lived human race known to the Imperial secret sevice. Because the Quendi are standoffish and don't have many close contacts with non-Quendi, this isn't widely known, although it is commonly known the Quendi are long lived.

Every Quendi has measurable psionic potential. But Psionic use is controlled by religious experience. Wizardry (secular use of Psionics) is very rare and required to be subtle. This means that the Imperial Secret Services can keep the Quendi under wraps and work with the Quendi "Wizards" to study psionics (in order to improve defenses against the Zhodani).

The Quendi seem to have some psi skills unknown elsewhere, mainly the ability to create illusions. These are limited in scope, a distant cry, the feeling of something clawing on your skin, a distrubing shadow seen out of the corner of the eye, a faint but noticable scent of burning, the taste of what you think is poison in your drink, and other small scale sensory tricks. The Imperial Secret service sees multiple uses for such little tricks.

jason taylor 02-23-2015 11:53 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Development of two concepts thought of earlier:

The Otherside Route

This is a frontier zone to GSouth of the Zhodani consulate. It receives it's name from it's dependency on a trade route with a mysterious civilization on the "otherside" of the Zho. There are numerous theories of the nature of this civilization. The most mundane of these is just that it is the Coreward Zhodani but many of the goods that come down the Route are not of Zho make at all. Others say it is an undiscovered race of Humaniti, or the Droyne homeworld, or many another speculation of varying degrees of plausibility. There is a plentiful supply of trade going down the route from a relay system that resembles the contacts between the Zho and the Vilani or the pre-Imperial Syleans and the Vilani in the last stages of the Long Night. To support this there are scattered high TL civilizations, both human and alien some of which are, extremely curious. This is one of the few areas of virgin territory known in the Imperium and is of immense interest to Scouts and adventurous traders. Population is low except in well protected and isolated settlements because of the continual Vargr raids but it is generally held that a determined effort may correct this. To enable this, Archduke Norris and several other rulers have given Ihaiti vassalships and provided transit rights, subsidies, equipment and other such necessities to would be Aslan colonizers in the hope not only of developing the Otherside Route but continuing Norris' secret policy of establishing an Aslan tripwire(see below) between the Imperium and the Vargr.

jason taylor 02-23-2015 12:08 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Aslan Tripwire:

Rumored policy of Archduke Norris of allowing transit rights to Ihaiti in return for forming a chain of Aslan vassal states between the Imperium and the Vargr. This policy is neither confirmed nor denied most likely because of desire to avoid upsetting Humaniti-nativists more then need be.

jason taylor 03-06-2015 12:36 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Street Sagas:

This is a generic name for stories based on the manipulations of Nevite Clan Elders, and Clan Secret Services played out within the various cities they set up shop in. They deal with things like politics, vendetta, and struggle for wealth, power, security, and honor. They also deal with crime and corruption. They come in a spectrum between the "light" and the "dark" end. The light end is recognizably similar to an Ancient Terran Cozy or similar Vilani fashions. It can also resemble a sports story if, as is commonly the case, it focuses on the continual battle of wits between factions on a normal and respectable level, rather then a crime or other disruption. At the "dark" end it is more violent and can figure vendetta or similar breakdown. This type has been compared to a Terran gangster epic. As technology can play an important part, it can resemble a cyberpunk at both ends. This genre is a favorite of female writers and readers as the city unlike the trade routes is considered a predominately female jurisdiction, and as intelligencers (who naturally play a strong role in these) are as likely to be female as male unlike cruder professions such as Armsmen, or regular military.

Astromancer 07-24-2015 01:40 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
The Ballad Deck

Just as we have the Tarot Cards, the 3I has The Ballad Deck. Scholars have shown that the Ballad Deck started as a New-Agey commercial product based on Child's Popular English and Scottish Ballads. The title of each card and the image on the card is drawn from a ballad, folksong, or other source.

Examples: The Death of Queen Jane is based on Child #170 the image is a woman laying on a bed, and a man in royal robes kneeling by it. Interpretive meaning:Reality crushing Illusion, Lies scattered by truth, Birth and Death, Private Sorrow and Public Joy. Reversed: Truth rejected for Illusion. Festering misery.

Get up and Bar the Door is based on Child #275 the image is of a man and woman refusing to look at each other while thieves rob them. Interpretive Meaning Petty Quarrels, Disunion leading to being exploited by others. Reversed Peace, Unity in the face of Foes.

The present day decks across the 3I vary widely in which ballads are represented. Many ballads and stories not represented in Child's nor even part of Solimani folk tradition are represented in the cards in different areas of the 3I. In spite of the widespread knowledge of the origins of the cards, they are widely seen as effective. Superstitions based on the cards both for fortunetelling and magic are commonplace. Urban legend holds that the Zhodani may have created the deck to corrupt the Imperium.

The cards are seen as illicit in some areas, inspired in others, and good silly fun in still other places.

The popularity of the Cards makes references to the Ballads commonly represented in the Cards current.

Agents of the Zhodani and Ine Givar are known to use fortune tellers as covers. Also, many ancient scams and frauds are still carried on under the cover of the mantic arts.

It should be noted that the Ballad Cards allow the use of musical themes and background music to be integrated into play. This can be used to heighten suspence and provide several different types of atmosphere.

Astromancer 08-31-2015 02:57 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Has anyone thought about widely celebrated holidays?

Did Christmas and Valentine's Day catch on? Is Slug Frying Day a major greeting card holiday?

Please, give us details.

jason taylor 08-31-2015 07:13 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1932460)
Has anyone thought about widely celebrated holidays?

Did Christmas and Valentine's Day catch on? Is Slug Frying Day a major greeting card holiday?

Please, give us details.

I have Departure and Homecoming for when the merchant fleet traditionally departs and arrives (a hangover from the on-planet trading season which depends on the whether as the off-world one does not). Both involve partying of all sorts though the later also involves a day of fasting in memorial to the year's casualties and gifts to the poor by the various Merchants' guilds. Mead is traditionally served on both occasions; that is a trader's drink (because bees are an animal that lives by "trading", goes on long voyages, lives in cities and defends it's cities to the death when attacked). These are not Imperial Holidays per se, but customs being contagious are often celebrated in the Imperial Enclave.

Christmas and Valentine's Day still remain. Traditionally Christmas Eve is a fast day and Christmas Day a feast day. Church takes place Christmas Eve, family presents are given Christmas Morn, and the evening of Christmas is for clan feastings.

Weekends are considered party time, and a little bit of tolerable wildness in youngweds is looked on indulgently. Hangouts, clubs, bazaars, etc of various kinds are expected to be full especially at nighttime. Jews of course party on Friday or Sunday rather then Saturday. Goyim, usually Christians but also Parsees, Sikhs, and Maar Zon(the last of whom arrived with the Imperium) party on Friday evening and Saturday. Christians rest and worship on Sundays as Jews do on Saturday though less stringently. Not everyone goes out on the town on the weekend and those who do don't on every weekend, it is just the city is more lively on weekends.

Each clan and each guild has their own feast and fast schedule as well as the ones known to everyone as does each religious sect. There are also days celebrating events of civic importance such as a city founding. Or an Antitriumph (described elsewhere). As well there are irregular, or semi-regular holidays like rites of passage, marriages, the ascension of a chief or what not that celebrate a single event rather then a specific date. One irregular holiday of note is the renaming of a prize taken in a successful privateering voyage (a ship isn't completely captured until it has a new name). While the characters culture are not a conquering culture in the sense of being Bonapartist, they are a warlike one by the need of living in a hard neighborhood and there is usually someone to take out a letter of marque on if only Vargr corsairs. And a successful war voyage is a source of celebration. So it is a fair guess that everyday someone is partying for some reason or none.

Traditions include such things as outdoor storytelling by a bonfire (or indoor at a coffeehouse or drinking house), dancing, gambling and so on. As I said before the only meat served on holidays is hunted, usually from a game park; stuff from a knacker usually is a desecration to holiday season though clans vary in how strict they keep that. Jewish clans capture the meat alive and then have it slaughtered in a traditional manner, the main point being that it had a fair chance to get away one way or another. It is the right of young virgin males to provide the meat, usually hare caught with Aslan firyehs when they are young, when they are older they can use a rifle and chase deer or antelope in either case hunted in packs of six. Other sports include jousting, polo, pigsticking, "Vantha hunts" (from an light flyer or ornithopter that is-I.E as close as humans can get to hunting like an Evantha), hawking, yachting and other such gentlemanly forms of outdoor entertainment. And the Gilda Vindicta(dualing guilds) allow spectators for both sporting matches and grudge matches as well as matches settling interclan disputes. Drinks include most kinds of alcohol and caffine but coffee is the favorite, and as I said Mead has a special place. The character's city is an autonomous Enclave of a diplomatic port therefore more formal celebrations than are fashionable in many settlements of their culture take place. Waltzes and ballets for instance are popular as well as reels. Ice dancing is also popular both by professionals and amateurs.

Militia exercises are treated as sport as well as training for war and gambling is rampant. I once wrote a story where the Imperial Chief of Station placed a bet locally on the assumption that the bookie would be less cautious with information if he thought of him as a patron then he would if he thought of him as a foreign intelligencer.

But no, there is no slug frying day. Although Departure usually comes just after the Springfish run so part of the fun is catching as many fish (and as many fellow predators too) as possible. In fact the other predators that gather for the Springfish run are some of the best parts; Springfish are only for eating but Lancers, which are sort of like Marlin, are considered a worthy catch and are usually taken with a combination of hook and line and harpoon. Lancer teeth are often made into jewelry as is their bill. In any case putting Departure after the fish run is a practical way of stocking on rations as well as being fun.

jason taylor 08-31-2015 08:28 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Remembrance Club: A genteel club with a nostalgia theme of an idealized Interstellar Wars service club. Songs are usually period as is the decor. Drink includes a high quality selection both of coffees and hard drink and a number of period cocktails are said to be served no where else. It is claimed that perserved holographs of entertainers from the time are shown performing thousands of years after their death, however some vulgar people have expressed skepticism at the authenticity. On some nights there are also live performers. It is considered a genteel place, one for drinking in moderation for elegant pleasure and getting just tipsy enough to enjoy oneself. The stuff they serve there is not something to get smashed on. THAT you can find somewhere else in town.

Drifter 09-02-2015 02:00 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1932460)
Has anyone thought about widely celebrated holidays?

Did Christmas and Valentine's Day catch on? Is Slug Frying Day a major greeting card holiday?

Please, give us details.

Most holidays are local, limited a single world or even a single region for higher population worlds. There are a few county wide holidays, and fewer subsector or sector wide ones.

Admission Day
is usually county wide or larger. Its the celebration of when a world was admitted into the Third Imperium. This was often done by region, the Emperor sending out the order such and such a region of space was now part of the 3I. The actual news of this got to various worlds at various times, but an official admission date is celebrated. Individual worlds celebrate in their own way, with their own cultural hallmarks, but are united in that they celebrate on the same date.

Landing Day is celebrated on most worlds that recognize they are part of an interstellar culture. Some don't, either because they are Minor Race home worlds, or just refuse to recognize that their ancestors were from another planet. In any case its usually a big affair, and a landing Spot (real or made up for marketing purposes) will have a fair, parades, speeches and such.

X's Birthday
celebrates X, the local Imperial noble with the most power. Such as "Count Duku's Birthday". Depending on the culture (and how much people like Count Duku) it can be a big deal or just an excuse for an air/raft sales event.

Slug Frying Day
occurs on two separate worlds. On Kolskiy/Ot Zell (Lishun 2624) it is a culinary festival, with chefs from all the city/domes meet at the capital in cook-offs preparing the delicious Kolskiy Slug, a creature that centuries ago was a pest, slimeing the domes but now considered a delicacy (offworlders have a differing opinion). On Elvire/Mohica (Neworld 1414) it celebrates the day the last of the Brain Slugs were exterminated, with flamethrowers, finally allowing widespread colonization.

jason taylor 09-02-2015 02:51 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
If they don't like Count Duku they can spend the day torturing him in effigy and party while they do that.

Drifter 09-02-2015 03:34 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1933118)
If they don't like Count Duku they can spend the day torturing him in effigy and party while they do that.

Any excuse for a party...

jason taylor 09-02-2015 06:09 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifter (Post 1933131)
Any excuse for a party...

Michael Wood once visited Iran where they held a festival parading the greatest folkvillains of history. Iskander the Accursed, the Two-horned one was prominent among the list.

Astromancer 09-04-2015 02:44 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1933188)
Michael Wood once visited Iran where they held a festival parading the greatest folkvillains of history. Iskander the Accursed, the Two-horned one was prominent among the list.

Well Alex did knock down their Empire. One Iranian film critic lambasted a recent film about Thermopylae because the Greeks were heroes and the Persians were not treated as lovable superheroes.

jason taylor 09-04-2015 03:01 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1933781)
Well Alex did knock down their Empire. One Iranian film critic lambasted a recent film about Thermopylae because the Greeks were heroes and the Persians were treated as lovable superheroes.

I actually rather thought it was a more accurate depiction then "the Great" myself.

Astromancer 09-05-2015 02:08 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1933789)
I actually rather thought it was a more accurate depiction then "the Great" myself.

As a modern given a choice between the Ancient Persians and Greeks, I'd probably want to machine gun them both.

Conquest is conquest, a nasty business to be on the receiving end of. The Iranians want the West to see Ancient Persian and Modern Iranian conquests (they've had some) as beautiful heroic acts. Meanwhile they label all aspects of the European expansion of the 1400 through 1950 period as "The Whitemare!" They, like everybody else, including us, want their actions seen as noble and everybody else in a lesser light. We regard this kind of thing as immoral now. They still see it as noble.

These kind of mismatches lead to violent quarrels.

jason taylor 09-11-2015 01:06 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1934094)
As a modern given a choice between the Ancient Persians and Greeks, I'd probably want to machine gun them both.

Conquest is conquest, a nasty business to be on the receiving end of. The Iranians want the West to see Ancient Persian and Modern Iranian conquests (they've had some) as beautiful heroic acts. Meanwhile they label all aspects of the European expansion of the 1400 through 1950 period as "The Whitemare!" They, like everybody else, including us, want their actions seen as noble and everybody else in a lesser light. We regard this kind of thing as immoral now. They still see it as noble.

These kind of mismatches lead to violent quarrels.


Of course they had some conquests. I was speaking specifically of Al and what I don't really like about him is not so much that he conquered which most rulers did, but that that is pretty much all he did. Ancient Persian conquests were not any more beautiful or heroic then Alexander's unless you count the fact that Cyrus was more rational and had some idea of a purpose in what he was doing. Ancient Persian concepts of administration were however a great thing and certainly an advancement over what had come before.

And not all the things done through the period of the "whitemare" are really the same as Alexander's. That talks about a whole cluster of cultures. There was trade, development, scientific discovery, carrying of the best as well as the worst elements of the west. The same applies to the spread of Hellenism which was also spread by an entire culture. Insulting Alexander is not insulting Greece. Alexander killed thousands of Greeks as he did thousands of Persians-and incidently helped destroy democracy. Alexander was one man who had little goal other then to show off to everyone what a badass he was just because daddy left him a magnificient army whose achievements he claimed for himself. I dislike him not because he was a King, or Macedonian, or White, or even an Imperialist but frankly because he was a royal brat whose idea of kingship was to go on a useless dungeon crawl through half the world. I can say "Hellenism was a great period in civilization" and "Alexander was an evil man" without contradiction. Just as during the "Whitemare" I say freely that "The Victorian Era brought great things for civilization" and "King Leopald was an evil man." They are not contradictory.

As for Persians getting sensitive about Thermopylae, well tough luck on them. That is one of the most cherished tales in Western folklore, and if it is so because of propaganda at the time, well that just proves that great storytellers last as long as great conquerors and are a better service to mankind. Or longer. If they wish to read about Rustam and his bull-headed mace there is no reason I can't read about Leonidas. I hope they enjoy it. Just so they don't bug me by an undo display of sensitivity. In any case if you wish to make a point about that sort of thing it is kind of cheeky for Shia to be sensitive on account of insults to Ancient Persia considering how they arrived in the area.

jason taylor 10-04-2015 11:06 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Glisten Museum of Commerce and Navigation:

A noted museum dedicated to history of Interstellar Trade. Contains specs of ships as far back as the Zira Sirka, preserved logs, as well as various works of folk-art such as world-gem necklaces and carvings in artificial scrimshaw. Other exhibits include spacer folktales and superstitions, stories about famous discoveries and what not. Among the prizes are the record of the First Contact between the Vilani and Zhodani. Also included is a collection of the works composed by Matthew McHarkin the famous Free Trader Poet and Philosopher, during spare time along his voyages.

Astromancer 10-12-2015 03:05 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
The Ministry of Culture

While these guys are often seen as flakes or a trash can to dump the weirder aristocrats into, The M of C is actually an important tool of imperial power. They have several important jobs.

A) They work to create a unified Imperial culture and to include the Aristocracy and the political elites in it. This gives the Imperium a common language and metaphors. It makes it easier for people from deferent worlds and species to talk to each other and be understood. As such it is a powerful tool.

B) They are memetic engineers, in fact they keep the study of memetics to themselves as much as possible. They subtlely shape the high and popular culture of the imperium to make the imperium seem like the best possible choice. This is generally low key. Example: TV shows with friendly "Wizard" characters never seem to get good syndication deals off-world. The M of C making sure that the idea of a "good/honorable" psion isn't commonplace.

C) The M of C provides cover most of the 3I's psionic agents. They're so famously weird, odd behavior means nothing.

More later.

Astromancer 10-15-2015 08:23 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
The Ministry of Culture: Part II


D) The MofC is also a marriage mart, or rather a manipulator of marriage marts. As part of their goal of a unified galactic culture for the 3I, they work to use marriage alliances to make sure that powerful people and their allies have family connections broadly spread across the Imperium. This means that the fate of the Imperium is the fate of their family, so they'll have motives to promote the Imperium.

E) Another aspect of being a Marriage Mart is that the MofC is running a breeding program. They are attempting to breed mentally stable, healthy nobles. If you think about it, that sort of nobility would have the greatest stake in the long term stability of society. They'd have the best chance to have families and close emotional relationships, and thus a personal stake in the society they live in.

Drifter 10-16-2015 12:56 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Astromancer (Post 1944413)
E) Another aspect of being a Marriage Mart is that the MofC is running a breeding program. They are attempting to breed mentally stable, healthy nobles. If you think about it, that sort of nobility would have the greatest stake in the long term stability of society. They'd have the best chance to have families and close emotional relationships, and thus a personal stake in the society they live in.

Close emotional relationships would be the antithesis of such a breeding program, and the dispersal of an Imperial wide culture, as such ties would tend to keep families together. Such familial bonding would lead to the rise of regional family powers, concentrating power at the expense of wider, Imperial goals.

I won't say that such regional power groups are unknown, or not part of a possible Traveller universe. I don't see a breeding program with the (side effect?) of emotionally stable, family oriented people leading to those people giving their overall efforts to the government/society rather than their own family.

I see a breeding program more along the lines of the one in Dune. Whatever the goal might be in a TU, such a program would likely be accomplished as in that book, with concubines, illicit trysts, and emotional manipulation in order to get the right parents to produce the right children.

A program to breed stable people (and presumably stable families) would be self defeating. Once you achieved a family that cared about the well being of its children, probably the first thing they would do is protect them from the manipulation of a breeding program. Even one that doesn't resort to Dunesque shenanigans.

And just a minor quibble but I don't see a Ministry of Culture in anything close to the OTU. Of course anything is possible in your own setting, but the 3I that I know promotes local power, especially culturally, rather than a centralized model. Remember that Dulinor was upset that Strephron's support of local culture was not going fast or far enough, implying that it was a somewhat recent phenomenon that an Imperium-standard culture was arising/promoted. The Solomani certainly promoted their own culture, and we know how the 3I reacted to that. I'm sure the Vilani would love a 3I-wide ministry of culture, promoting their culture and supressing that of Sylea and the Solomani, not to mention local or alien culture.

SteveS 10-16-2015 01:09 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifter (Post 1944467)
. . .
I see a breeding program more along the lines of the one in Dune. Whatever the goal might be in a TU, such a program would likely be accomplished as in that book, with concubines, illicit trysts, and emotional manipulation in order to get the right parents to produce the right children.
. . .

This is something Hivers do for fun.

In particular, Hivers are fascinated by psionics, because Hivers have never observed one of their own with psionics, and they find that lack frustrating -- so they might be particularly prone to tinkering with psionic sophonts (or maybe safer, non-sophont psionics) to figure out the source of psionics and how they might gain psionics for their own kind.

jason taylor 10-21-2015 09:43 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifter (Post 1944467)
Close emotional relationships would be the antithesis of such a breeding program, and the dispersal of an Imperial wide culture, as such ties would tend to keep families together. Such familial bonding would lead to the rise of regional family powers, concentrating power at the expense of wider, Imperial goals.

I won't say that such regional power groups are unknown, or not part of a possible Traveller universe. I don't see a breeding program with the (side effect?) of emotionally stable, family oriented people leading to those people giving their overall efforts to the government/society rather than their own family.

I see a breeding program more along the lines of the one in Dune. Whatever the goal might be in a TU, such a program would likely be accomplished as in that book, with concubines, illicit trysts, and emotional manipulation in order to get the right parents to produce the right children.

A program to breed stable people (and presumably stable families) would be self defeating. Once you achieved a family that cared about the well being of its children, probably the first thing they would do is protect them from the manipulation of a breeding program. Even one that doesn't resort to Dunesque shenanigans.

And just a minor quibble but I don't see a Ministry of Culture in anything close to the OTU. Of course anything is possible in your own setting, but the 3I that I know promotes local power, especially culturally, rather than a centralized model. Remember that Dulinor was upset that Strephron's support of local culture was not going fast or far enough, implying that it was a somewhat recent phenomenon that an Imperium-standard culture was arising/promoted. The Solomani certainly promoted their own culture, and we know how the 3I reacted to that. I'm sure the Vilani would love a 3I-wide ministry of culture, promoting their culture and supressing that of Sylea and the Solomani, not to mention local or alien culture.

Wouldn't the classic considerations of kinship strategy, and inheiritance manipulation tend to outweigh genetics in matchmaking the way they have always done? There are few examples in history of a serious attempt at human selective breeding, though nominal adherence to such would be as good a way as any to justify ancestor totemism in TTU. And while genetics as such is new it is absurd to say that pastoral and agricultural peoples of the past would be to ignorant to come up with the idea of human selective breeding; they just very seldom took it seriously. However there are plenty of examples of using kinship as a means of building power. The Habsburgs knew perfectly well they had ugly chins but they also got an empire out of it.

Drifter 10-21-2015 02:26 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1946138)
Wouldn't the classic considerations of kinship strategy, and inheiritance manipulation tend to outweigh genetics in matchmaking the way they have always done? There are few examples in history of a serious attempt at human selective breeding, though nominal adherence to such would be as good a way as any to justify ancestor totemism in TTU. And while genetics as such is new it is absurd to say that pastoral and agricultural peoples of the past would be to ignorant to come up with the idea of human selective breeding; they just very seldom took it seriously. However there are plenty of examples of using kinship as a means of building power. The Habsburgs knew perfectly well they had ugly chins but they also got an empire out of it.

I'm seeing it more from the standpoint of "close kinship" combined with empire building. I can't see emotionally stable families wishing to see their members move literally years away for the sake of an abstract government. Especially when they can achieve such power locally.

Selective breeding programs, such as close family member marriage among leaders (like Pharaohs and various Emperors) isn't uncommon. But the extent of such a culture/empire is limited by travel. The Hapsburg pushed their limits even confined to Europe.

The closest model in Traveller would be some megacorps, Tukera for example. The Spinward Marches branch is separated from the Solomani Rim branch by years of travel. And while travelling you can't rule your "lands" effectively so you (as a Tukera noble) wouldn't be doing much of that, at least outside of your own sector or even subsector. I would bet that a Marches Tukera would come from a far different culture than a Rim Tukera, despite being related. You might send a younger son/daughter off to the far side of the Imperium to maintain the bloodline, but that person is never going back home and will likely take up the local culture more than disseminate their own home culture.

Thats the trouble I have with a "standard Imperial culture" in general, and one I think the original game stepped over in establishing the 3I as neutral to local, planetary, government and culture. There is no point in maintaining a culture years apart from each other, aside from some very focused areas. Everyone agrees the Imperial Navy protects/enforces every Imperial world, not everyone agrees men should wear pants, eat (or not) red meat, and can go topless occasionally, that is, cultural details better left to local decisions.

jason taylor 10-21-2015 07:01 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Emotional stability never was notable in those kinds of families was it anyway? Not in the sense of what middle class suburbanite would consider sense of family anyway. They were certainly often dysfunctional and could be counted as doing well if they had no worse problems then chronic adultery. But those sorts seemed to use their family more as an abstract loyalty rather like a nationalism. The Habsburgs were perfectly willing to see their daughter in the bed of a Corsican mobster with messianic delusions that happened to be their blood enemy if it bought them time to shaft said Corsican mobster later.

As for the rather notorious endogamy it does not look to me like a selective breeding program so much as snobbery. For selective breeding you want the ones who would give the type of traits desired in the children not just the geneological records desired. Harem beauty contests seem more like that, but that again seems more as a luxury to benefit a ruler's sexual taste then a means for breeding unusually good princes.

As for a general Imperial culture, I would agree there would be nothing like that. There might be something more like an Old Boys Network at the top closely maintained. And the Imperium might well go out of it's way to highlight the cultural achievements of various cultures in museums, athletic conventions, and all the other sorts of stuff. It would certainly not try to maintain anything like an interstellar culture and that seems to go against the intent of canon anyway.

Drifter 10-22-2015 11:09 AM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1946337)
Emotional stability never was notable in those kinds of families was it anyway? Not in the sense of what middle class suburbanite would consider sense of family anyway. They were certainly often dysfunctional and could be counted as doing well if they had no worse problems then chronic adultery. But those sorts seemed to use their family more as an abstract loyalty rather like a nationalism. The Habsburgs were perfectly willing to see their daughter in the bed of a Corsican mobster with messianic delusions that happened to be their blood enemy if it bought them time to shaft said Corsican mobster later.

I was following Astromancer's logic, where he noted "mentally stable, healthy" nobles. Not a prominent feature of most aristocracies, as you note, or even the leadership of today's governments. It might be a goal, but leadership and power would seem to me be the primary goals, with everything else secondary.

Quote:

As for the rather notorious endogamy it does not look to me like a selective breeding program so much as snobbery. For selective breeding you want the ones who would give the type of traits desired in the children not just the geneological records desired. Harem beauty contests seem more like that, but that again seems more as a luxury to benefit a ruler's sexual taste then a means for breeding unusually good princes.
I suppose any limiting of mate selection can be described as a "program", if you have some sort of goal at the end, even if its just snobbery.

Quote:

As for a general Imperial culture, I would agree there would be nothing like that. There might be something more like an Old Boys Network at the top closely maintained. And the Imperium might well go out of it's way to highlight the cultural achievements of various cultures in museums, athletic conventions, and all the other sorts of stuff. It would certainly not try to maintain anything like an interstellar culture and that seems to go against the intent of canon anyway.
But as SteveS said, it would make a great Hiver manipulation. Its been a while since I read Hiver stuff, but don't THEY have a more or less unified culture? I could see a Manipulator trying to promote such a culture, at least in areas adjacent to Federation.

jason taylor 10-23-2015 07:56 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
I could see an interstellar matchmaker network geared toward
"emotional stability" rather then strategy as a sideline program for pairing spares. As we have both agreed classic kinship manipulation strategies would probably take priority but there is still room for doing a little something for the extra children of nobles and high bourgeious; perhaps even as a perk for servants and their families. It wouldn't be Imperium wide, but there might be subsector wide corporations or groups of corporations that specialize in this.

While mentioning this, kinship strategies use other means then political marriage although that is famous simply because it is used in cliche plots. Japanese used to have arranged adoptions. Fosterage is common and it doubles as an ad-hoc academy when the patron fosters enough of his client's children as was often done in feudal times: this is a custom which the Traveller universe is well suited for. Sicilians used to have arranged Church sponsorship which is why the title "Godfather" was chosen. A lot of these are more revocable and cause less hardship on participants then political marriage.

Astromancer 10-24-2015 03:27 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Still, we all agree that aristocrats don't marry for love. Marriages are economic and political tools. With a powerful third party with ties to a highly prestigious and useful marriage mart, other goals could be gently added into the mix. Especially if it was understood that those that cooperated got breaks in promotion and in the political game.

I don't say the Ministry of culture has an easy time of it. But they do have pull and they are in the game for the long haul.

jason taylor 10-24-2015 09:28 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
Imperial Currency Exchange:

A department of the Imperial Mint responsible for exchanging Imperial credits for member world or non-imperial currency. It's primary purpose is to maintain the Credit at a dependable and reliable rate from planet to planet and it is not a for-profit money-changing enterprise as such (such establishments are to be found elsewhere) but as a buttress to Imperial commerce and the rates of exchange of each currency on each world projected to the end of the next fiscal year are available as a regular port service to captains in a given sector and is kept to reliably regardless of local changes. The other nine years of a given monetary forecast are kept unpublished in the event that an adjustment should be required. The only exchanges done are Imperial to member world or non-imperial currency and back again. Direct exchanges between such are handled by private establishments.

An open secret is that a secondary purpose of the ICE is as an auxiliary to Imperial Law Enforcement and Intelligence organizations. Not only do inspections of records take place but many ICE employees have a second job as informants. Furthermore the ICE maintains a security suboffice to prevent undesired outsiders from gaining confidential information from the ICE.

jason taylor 11-21-2015 11:20 AM

Margessi Orbital Trade Fair
 
Held four times a year, it is a gathering of starships at the planet of Margessi. The tradition was instituted as a cheap way of making up for the worlds inferior starport.

Goods are brought from far in known space and the trade fair acts as an interface between politically hostile powers. As well as the more serious products some ships arrive renting out on board concesssions to serve as iterrant malls and there is plenty of celebration both in orbit and dirtside. There is a darker element as well; the Trade Fair is considered an opportunity for nefarious doings including the trafficking in stolen goods, sophant smuggling(voluntary and involuntary) and espionage. It is said that some of the local constabularies make a temporary alliance with the criminal classes to keep the Imperium from interfering to much with the darker forms of trade and the revenue that comes from it. This rumor has not been substantiated though the Inspectors General would certainly be interested in learning more about such matters.

jason taylor 12-04-2015 12:19 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
The Lone Star Angel

Shana Ashton. Born on Nusku of mixed ancestry, Khimashargu on her mother's side and of immigrants from the Terran region of "Texas" on her father's side. She was an avid developer of the ancient Terran "Country" tradition. Known by her stereotyped "cowgirl" costume she played entertainment in the war zones in the early part of the Interstellar Wars. She endured many dangers including the normal dangers of war as well as two attempts to assassinate her by Vilani covert operators. Holographic recordings of her visits were made and they are still played in many traditional naval and military clubs as well as some civilian establishments.

Astromancer 12-14-2015 02:33 PM

Re: 'Imperial Culture' (non-canonista)
 
The Arthurian Myths

Because Duke Albert (see the Jewel Books) brought the legends of Terra to the notice of the 3I the rich complexity of the Arthurian Myths caught the imagination.

As in Earth's past, the Arthurian Myths are a free floating sequence of multilayered metaphors. Old bottles that routinely get new wine. Highly popular, just look at the planets named for places and figures in the cycle.

People all along the political spectrum use the Myths. Arthur is popular with mainline Imperials. Lancelot is a huge deal with the more reactionary nobles. Merlin, Parzival, Gawain, and Morgan Le Fay, are all beloved of radicals.

Arthurian references are often coded political references throughout the 3I. The codes can be subtle or overt. Hiding a subtle code within a work that has a diametrically opposed overt message is a commonplace trick in popular fiction and media. But it has been known to happen in real life too.


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