Originally Posted by Drifter (Post 1466762)

Maybe they use a 'generic' service:



That seems to cover most of it.

Creatures of Light and Darkness, an old favorite.

Originally Posted by combatmedic (Post 1466668)

It does not require anything of the sort in the US armed forces.

Chaplains are not required to perform the specific rites of religions other than their own.

Originally Posted by ak_aramis (Post 1467326)

They are required to be available to counsel members of other faiths, however. I've known several chaplains (One USN, 2 Army, one USAF) who complained of that very issue.

And Catholic chaplains have been required to provide a basic Christian prayer service for non-Catholics. Fortunately, such a service is in the Catholic Missal... intended primarily for use by Deacons, rather than priests, but it is in the Altar Missal.

Originally Posted by combatmedic (Post 1467332)

Yup.



It may be that the typical pattern is for a given unit to be mostly homogenous in cultural terrms. There are advantages to that approach.

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1467542)

It also ensures defection in the event of a rebellion. Unless the Imperium does that old trick of stationing units far away from the province they are raised. But that is a tricky game and needs some units who can be relied on as being the Emperor's own. On the other hand soldiers who are soldiers and nothing else have always been primary recruitment for warlords and pretenders. Probably the Imperium has something of both. Perhaps the Imperial Armies reflect culture more and the Marines and the Guard are mixed to emphasize their theoretical monoloyalty to the Emperor.

The natural tendency of man is loyalty toward a person or ethnicity close to them more then to an abstract empire. And many emperors don't realize that enough to make sure that their subjects interests and sentiments are directed toward them.

Originally Posted by combatmedic (Post 1467714)

Recruiting a given unit mainly from one world or nation greatly increases unit cohesion and helps to create a strong sense of history and comradeship.



Yes, stationing units away from home is classic.
My 3I did that where appropriate.

Imperial Army units from Capitol and the Core Worlds might be considered more reliable than 'colonials.' Then again, they might be seen as more likely to be caught up in the intrigues of the metropole.


The big thing is to have the NAVY on your side.

The Navy is the way to climb socially. It's different in nature and organization.

YTU may vary, of course!

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1477579)

"Addition"(someone give me a Hebrew sounding word for that) which deals with such issues that come from a starfaring society. The "Addition" itself has two parts the general which deals with cases based on situations that could appear anywhere in the Imperium and beyond, and the "locals" based on situations peculiar to worlds on which Jews have settled. Organized in electronic format to allow user-friendliness.

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1477677)

Wouldn't these problems have been addressed early in the history of Terran starfaring? That is, even before the Rule of Man and long before Sylea became the certer of Charted Space. I like the idea but am doubtful about the name.

Wouldn't it just be called the Talmud? ("Now with added Wisdom.")


Hans

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1477705)

Now that you mention it quite possibly. I wanted a geographic location to mimic the Babylon and Jerusalem editions.

Originally Posted by Drifter (Post 1504818)

Very nice. I love details like this, that make a setting feel like a real place, with real people.

Originally Posted by combatmedic (Post 1504909)

For what it's worth, I immediately thought of a weasel.

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1505347)

I'm sure there's plenty of weasels at the Imperial Palace.

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1513098)

School of the Spade

Martial arts technique invented by Maj Sir Eneri Mackintosh, instructor for the Imperial Marine Commandos. It is based on the assumption that any real training in hand-to-hand combat should be where they would be most likely to be of practical use; in a short meeting engagement in urban or similar close combat situations. It therefore involves the weaponization of camp shovels, breaching tools, fascine knives, and other similar typical military impedimenta.

The School of the Spade has not gained popularity among the nobility who prefer more refined ways of doing bodily harm to one another. However the obvious good sense of the idea has gained interests among lower ranks of the Imperial Service and outside.

Originally Posted by Whitestreak (Post 1513248)

Oooohhh, I like this.

I think I may steal, er, borrow the concept.

I know that at one point in time the Soviet Spetsnaz did, indeed, train with their entrenching tools for close combat.

Originally Posted by Voltron64 (Post 1513594)

The Field of The Damned

A field on Jaeyelya said to hold a mass grave not of the Ael Yael, but rather employees and mercenaries for McAteer Mining LIC who were executed by the Imperial Marines during their intervention.

(You know what the Soviets did to Nazi POWs after WWII? Think something along the lines of that.)

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1518190)

Not bad....

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1297690)

Trophy etiquette: The manners for dealing with battle trophies. Varies from place to place. In the Spinward Marches it is customary for officers swords and other such memorabilia to be ransomed by the vanquished units mess fund either at the cessation of hostilities or by cartel vessel. If the ransom is not forthcoming a trophy can wait for generations. Trophies are not normally mentioned in a peace treaty; it is up to the individual units to conduct negotiations for this, often by means of a corporation that specializes in such matters(the Ares corporation for instance is well known as a cartel broker and will do work for individuals and for units as well as for states). While it is common for a given state to subsidize the ransom of a trophy, it is often considered a matter of honor for units to handle negotiations themselves.

If a trophy is ransomed, often the victor will have a replica made to send to a military or naval museum in the place of the original. This will be marked with a heraldric stamp to show that the original was ransomed. During the return there is an elaborate system of ceremony to prevent the desecration of the redeemed trophy. If it is stolen or damaged in the process this is considered a disgrace to both parties. It is also considered a mark of philistinism even in the criminal world in some areas, at least according to rumor; while it is known for art thieves to attempt to steal ransomed war trophies, those that do lose respect even among their fellows. Cynics argue that this is just because it is impossible to fence such high-profile items. On the other hand it is not unknown for terrorists to make an attempt to disrupt the transfer for purposes of their own.

Accepted trophies can take a wide variety of forms. Traditional ones like swords and flags are often the most prized, however these are seldom taken into battle except in naval combat as such things are often to cumbersome for ground combat. Artillery pieces are valued as well, but they are also valued even more for their practical usefulness. Holographical representations of captured artillery pieces however are common. Other common items include plundered items from a government building or palace. Artwork is very often treated as a legitimate trophy of war when found in a captured ship, or a public building. Often times though, the conquerors will simply make a representation, especially if the artwork is easily damaged. Many cultures have a tradition of decorated weapons, sometimes including actual combat gear as well as the strictly ceremonial and these also are legitimate trophies of war. However the variety is remarkable, and some accepted forms of trophies are rather strange and even grotesque. Corpse mutilation is considered unchivalrous and unprofessional by most astralcracies in the Spinward Marches, but some places have a tradition of such, and even in civilized places one can find some rather odd trinkets if one looks hard enough. One regiment of Darrian Aslan has the skull of a Sword Worlder colonel as a flowerpot in it's officers mess; the more straitlaced Darrian humans and Aslan from other regiments think that rather distasteful but usually politely ignore it when invited as guests. Mercs, of course are often wilder about that sort of thing then government forces, but many mercs follow the accepted customs just as strictly as any standing military. If a trophy goes unransomed for long enough it might be captured by a third party. The record for this is the ceremonial throne of a Hertug that lived during the squabbling states era that was captured and recaptured eight successive times without once being ransomed. It is unremarkable artistically but according to legend it was made of cannibalized hull material from the Gram herself. Historians dispute that, but there is no doubt that it's history is interesting enough even if the legend is untrue. It is now sitting in the Imperial War Museum of Mora awaiting the conclusion of negotiations for ransom.

In the Imperial War Museum of Mora there is a large space dedicated to war trophies. Some of them are replications, either solid or holographic. Some are unransomed. The trophies are cataloged and sorted with a database telling when they were captured, what the significance of a given trophy is, and when, if ever, they were ransomed.

A war-trophy offers potential as a Macguffin with many possible adventures the most obvious being negotiating a delicate ransom, and carrying it back with due ceremony.

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1532601)

And yes, St Joseph of Cupertino really is the Patron of Spacers.

Originally Posted by Catholic Encyclopaedia

Everything that in any way had reference to God or holy things would bring on an ecstatic state: the sound of a bell or of church music, the mention of the name of God or of the Blessed Virgin or of a saint, any event in the life of Christ, the sacred Passion, a holy picture, the thought of the glory in heaven, all would put Joseph into contemplation. Neither dragging him about, buffeting, piercing with needles, nor even burning his flesh with candles would have any effect on him — only the voice of his superior would make him obey. These conditions would occur at any time or place, especially at Mass or during Divine Service.

Originally Posted by Brett (Post 1532640)

Ouch!

I'm not sure I'd want him in the engine-room (or the control room) during a landing.

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1532650)

Well, yes. On the other hand, maybe they think him more useful in jump-space. It is a strange place after all.

Actually the poor fellow sounds like it was just as well he was raised in seclusion. And if he was really seeing visions I don't want to be Tempting Fate. And if he was just insane, which is likely enough, I don't want to Kick the Dog. But he was the only Patron Saint of Spacers I could find.

Originally Posted by Brett (Post 1532743)

He sounds to me to have had temporal lobe epilepsy with complex partial seizures and Geschwind syndrome.

Originally Posted by Brett (Post 1532743)

He sounds to me to have had temporal lobe epilepsy with complex partial seizures and Geschwind syndrome.

Originally Posted by combatmedic (Post 1532840)

He sounds to me like someone focused on holy things, and not wordly things.

Originally Posted by combatmedic (Post 1532840)

He sounds to me like someone focused on holy things, and not wordly things.

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1532854)

You must be talking of a peculiar format because epilepsy really isn't like that.

Originally Posted by Brett (Post 1533008)

Geschwind Syndrome is a collection of characteristics sometimes found in patients who have temporal lobe epilepsy that includes rambling speech, writing a lot, diminished sexuality, hyper-religiosity, and a deep concern with morality.

Originally Posted by Brett (Post 1533013)

There is quite a wide range of different forms of seizures in epilepsy, from simple partial seizures that may be misdiagnosed as depression up to tonic-clonic seizures with loss-of-consciousness and violent convulsions. St Joseph's "contemplations" sound like simple partial seizures with a focus in the temporal lobe.

Originally Posted by rust (Post 1533134)

It seems the other Franciscans in the monastery where he lived really spared
no effort to determine the depth of his contemplation ...

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1533137)

What was the normal treatment for that at the time, anyone?

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1533136)

That may be. They don't sound like anything I have experienced or witnessed.

I have experienced epilepsy and I have seen people in what everyone believed were sacred trances. The later were neither epileptic nor insane; I suppose the best material explanation if one doesn't believe in such things generally or in a given instance is to chalk it up to emotional excitement. And of course other religions describe similar things. Delphians for instance, though they were reportedly high. I suppose as a non-medieval I have learned to hedge bets.

Be that as it may, maybe spacers do want the protection of someone who has had a peculiar life(one way or another) when they go into jump space?

Originally Posted by rust (Post 1533140)

At this time there was a change from either no treatment at all or exorcism
(sometimes even execution) to locking people away in asylums without any
treatment. Psychiatric medicine did not exist in the west between the time
of the Romans and the early 19th century, and what was done to the psy-
chiatric patients during the 19th century can hardly be called medicine.

Originally Posted by combatmedic (Post 1533153)

Or maybe the spacers are not all a bunch of vulgar materialists?

Originally Posted by combatmedic (Post 1533153)

Or maybe the spacers are not all a bunch of vulgar materialists?

Originally Posted by rust (Post 1533158)

He became the patron saint of spacers because he could fly, up to 60 meters
high according to some reports. His contemplations have nothing to do with
his status as the patron saint of spacers.

Originally Posted by rust (Post 1533158)

He became the patron saint of spacers because he could fly, up to 60 meters
high according to some reports. His contemplations have nothing to do with
his status as the patron saint of spacers.

Edit.:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._engraving.jpg

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1537947)

Oathtaking: A Sword Worlder rite-of-passage in which an individual is accepted as an adult "citizen".

Sword Worlder's are uncomfortable with institutional loyalties and with unchosen loyalties outside the family. A replacement for this is patronage webs, real or fictive depending on the local culture. They have little civic instinct but much for the complexities of patronage. This is one reason for the political instability and for the rarity of democratic systems of government in the Sword Worlds. This also is one reason for the observed "militarism" in the Sword Worlds(aside from the historical one of being colonized by soldiers). The needs of a large civilization make institutional mechanization necessary. The most reliable format for this in Sword Worlder eyes is the military, depending as it does on oaths usually taken to a person. Because of this, mercantile and civil governmental structures often borrow the forms and rituals of a military. When there is no specific entity to swear to, rather then make contract with a fictive personage that exists only as a legal fiction, Sword Worlders will make a mythic figure to swear oath to. Examples of this will be the founder of a corporation, but also popular are Aesirist deities and heroes, Christian saints, heroes from sagas or other such. In places where there is ideological controversy there might be more then one mythic figure to act as Oathholder.

In the Oathtaking, held somewhere between 13-18, but commonly at age 16 the new Oathbound swears to the Thane, Jarl, Hertug, or in a democratic state like Tizon, or Hrunting the mythic patron. After this he or she has the rights of a "citizen" including marriage, bringing petition and suit, ownership of property, and such like as well as obligations such as military service(in men) or military-auxiliary service(in traditional women) such as medical assistance, and in some places the duty to sit in judgement in a Lawthing(jury). Rights and obligations vary from place to place.

After the Oathtaking there is a celebration. This usually includes both a public one for the thrope and a private one for the family. Customs of the celebration vary from place to place.

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1647832)

Parsis In Space:

During the Terran Expansion Parsis of India became dominant in a number of shipping lines. As a result Zoroastrianism became identified in some subsectors as a "Free Traders religion". During the Third Imperium some began to specialize in animal transport, inspired to appeal to their equestrian heritage, according to rumor, by the Authenticist Movement. Several branched out into stockbreeding and animal racing.

One notable clan known as the Rustamites is known for breeding and transporting horses. Upon it's heraldric emblem is a picture of a mounted warrior with a bull headed mace in one hand and a bow in the other trampling over a chameleon with the motto in Farsi, Gujariti(both of which are ritual languages by this time), and Ganglic "To ride, to shoot, and to despise all lies." By tradition neighboring Jewish clans nearby every Rosh Hashonah give a bottle of imported kosher wine to the Rustamites marked "Isaiah 44: 28" and "Nehamiah 1:11" in thanks for the first return from exile. This wine is drunk every Navroz(Parsi New Year) by the Rustamites.

Originally Posted by Drifter (Post 1685039)

Streetnames, or lack there of...

On many low-tech world where travel is limited to animal power or on foot, street names are only "necessary" on the larger roadways paved and maintained by whatever passes for the local government. The paths and open areas between hovels, on the other hand, can be temporary at best, with people setting up shops or building homes or businesses whever they please. These 'streets' are unnammed, directions amount to "go past the duck merchant, left at the community well, and my house is the one with the big brown dog in front of it".

Increased tech levels that allow people not of the immediate area to travel to, and need directions for, towns and cities, along with increased Law/Control level that enforce zoning regulations, mean streets themselves must be given a designation. "Go down Duck Avenue, turn left on Well Street, and my house is at 1422. Look out for my dog".

At tech levels where GPS becomes common, and grav vehicles allow travel of tremendous distances, street names become less of necessity, again relegated to sources of civic or cultural pride rather than functional tools. A driver would fly his vehicle to a coordinate on a mapgrid, rather than navigating by local landmarks. "My home is at 137.255/254.475." At higher Law/Control levels vehicles traffic would be controlled by a central system, a 'driver' would just tell the vehicle "take me to Eneri's house".

Higher Law/Control levels imply higher rates of litigation, so you might not even be allowed to fly there unless you agree to face known dangers "Eneri's house is licensed to board a class 3 guard animal, if you wish to proceed, waiving all rights to seek damages against this vehicle, vehicle agency and Eneri Jones, please click here"

Originally Posted by cptbutton (Post 1685340)

I've heard that navigating in Japan is tricky for Americans et al because addresses aren't based on streets, they are based on blocks, or something like that.

Originally Posted by cptbutton (Post 1685340)

I've heard that navigating in Japan is tricky for Americans et al because addresses aren't based on streets, they are based on blocks, or something like that.

Originally Posted by Voltron64 (Post 1851959)

To the people of the Third Imperium, an Imperial Marine clad in Battledress with cutlass in one hand and plasma gun or a gauss rifle in the other is as quintessential and iconic an image to them as a Knight in Shining Armor.

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1852021)

I wonder. The positive aspect of the Imperium to its citizens has to be the keeping of the peace between systems, protection of trade, that sort of thing. Citizens of member worlds wouldn't like the Imperial Marines coming calling. That would mean that there was a serious disagreement between the Imperium and their homeworld and the marines would be there to make sure their world changed its mind and saw things the Imperium's way, willy-nilly. So I think the battledressed marine is much more likely to be a symbol of oppression. The "Knight in Shining Armor" would be an Imperial Navy officer in full uniform.


Hans

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1852111)

I should think that would vary. On a restive world certainly. On a loyal Imperial world that exports marines they would be a symbol of nativist pride.

Originally Posted by Drifter (Post 1852208)

I agree with this. Further, on a restive world the Imperium would work with whatever pro-Imperial elements it could find, and present a positive image of the Imperium. A hearts-and-minds campaign, and what better image is that of the dispensers of justice, armored in virtue, impersonal, inevitable and final?

Such a propaganda campaign would only be promoted on violent or borderline worlds. It might be a default image, if not actively presented, in areas/worlds that have a military history, and it might be shunned in areas/worlds that abhor violence or images that imply militarism - very likely only select Core area worlds that have long been stable with unified, worldwide cultures.

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1852212)

At least some of the core worlds would contribute to the Imperial Service.

Originally Posted by Agemegos (Post 1852288)

Just so. And a favourable image of the Imperial forces is required to attract [the right] recruits. The USMC's image is cultivated more assiduously (and is better) where they are recruited than where they fight.

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1852111)

I should think that would vary. On a restive world certainly. On a loyal Imperial world that exports marines they would be a symbol of nativist pride.

Originally Posted by Agemegos (Post 1852288)

Just so. And a favourable image of the Imperial forces is required to attract [the right] recruits. The USMC's image is cultivated more assiduously (and is better) where they are recruited than where they fight.

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1852496)

Why would any Imperial world specialize in marines?


Hans

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1852624)

Because military service is a high prestige occupation and the Pax Zhunastu has left fewer opportunities at home?

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen (Post 1852496)

Why would any Imperial world specialize in marines?

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 1852486)

Places where the marines fight would be to beaten-up to raise anything on the level of the Imperial Marines even if they had a favorable opinion about them.