Re: Terraforming the Solar System
 

What is retro-SF? The system? Which system? The setting? Again, which setting?

If Hans altered some things about the 'oficial canon' on the Sword Worlds for his book, would that have been unacceptable 'fixing'? Would it have made the GURPS Traveller line a 'different genre'?

The next question, is for Hans. What, if anything, did you change about the Sword Worlds? Are there any fixes that you made to the world profiles? Did you alter anything substantial in order to make something about the setting more realistic or more plausible?

Re: Terraforming the Solar System
 

Well, that's a problem. Loren Wiseman has said that he knows, but isn't talking. Obviously it's one that leads to a different outcome of the events on 132-1116, but at least one difference goes back somewhat further. In the GTU, Strephon had decided to promote Norris to Archduke of Deneb, and done it in time for Norris to be on his way in time to arrive on Capital before 001-1117. IN the OTU Norris stayed in the Spinward Marches. At the very least, Strephon must have notified Norris. More likely there would have been at least one message cycle before that (Strephon: "Norris, I'm going to make you Archduke of Deneb. You're not going to embarrass me by refusing the honor, are you?" Norris: "Streph, Old Boy, you can't count on me." Strephon: "Be here on 001-1117, then." Norris: I'll be there with bells on!")

So depending on various assumptions, I would put the CP in 1114 or 1115.

But be that as it may, the big changes really get rolling after 132-1116. From there they spread like rings in the water. A lot of the stuff that goes on in the Marches would be pretty much the same up to around 1117, whereupon the noticeable changes would come thick and fast.

But anything prior to 1114 should be the same (at least notionally).


Hans

Re: Terraforming the Solar System
 

Ok, ok, you're having a vastly different discussion that I thought. Apparently Traveller to you means everything and nothing, so I guess I'll bow out.

Edit: I'm sorry for the passive aggression. I was tired and getting irritated by everything. I should have simply asked for clarification of what everyone meant by Traveller.

Re: Terraforming the Solar System
 

We asked for permission to make changes to physical part of some of the UWPs, on the grounds that there were a rather unbelievable number of unlikely worlds in the bunch. When that was refused, we went with the notion that this cluster of worlds had been a sort of terraforming laboratory for the Ancients (We decided that what excuse later authors could come up with for large clusters of unlikely worlds in other subsectors would be their problem -- we were going to use up the 'Ancient laboratory' excuse ;-)). Paul, with a LOT of help from Constantine did a magnificient job there.

Then we asked for, and received, permission to change the population levels on three worlds, Hofud, Dyrnwyn, and Durendal, on the grounds that canonical history had them playing roles on the interstellar scene that was incompatible with populations too low to be able to afford interstellar ships. After all, there's only so many times you can use "Well, there used to be many millions of them, but they had a nuclear war/was struck by a huge meteorite/swept by a world-spanning plague" explanations. (Note that we did use the nuclear war with Colada). ISTR that we also inadvertently changed one other population level (unintentionally, I mean), but I can't remember which one (I suppose I've repressed it).


Hans

Re: Terraforming the Solar System
 

Everything and nothing? Not at all. It means the systems and the settings called 'Traveller.'

That includes, but is not limited to, the OTU of CT and MT. It also includes GURPS Trav, MongTrav, and various homebrew Traveller settings.

Re: Terraforming the Solar System
 

I think those changes to the SW sound pretty reasonable, Hans.

Re: Terraforming the Solar System
 

Thanks! Though most of my effort was to just try and have the worlds make some degree of physical sense given the random UWPs, I think I used terraforming as an excuse only as a last resort.

Re: Terraforming the Solar System
 

Getting back onto the topic at hand... here's an interesting article that may provide food for thought:

http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/print/1645

"The hubris involved in genetic engineering is several orders of magnitude smaller than that involved in terraforming. At least we’re good at the former, as the variety and quality of our foodstuffs and pharmaceuticals attest. Nor would we be condemning entire worlds or species to destruction. Terraforming is a battering ram, genetic engineering is a scalpel. Which one would you prefer for a delicate, complex operation — whether this is repairing a watch, performing a heart bypass or fine-tuning a new world?"

(the quote in bold also showed up at NASA's recent "100 year starship" study).

This also illustrates some more Ancient craziness - they expended a lot of effort in genetically engineering pre-human stock from Earth to various other planets, and yet they also apparently wasted a lot of time terraforming worlds? And also they didn't do much genetic engineering on themselves apparently (not sure if the introduction of "coyns" really counts, since that's a psionic thing).

Re: Terraforming the Solar System
 

The change point is of need fuzzy, and well prior to 1114 when the really obvious changes (Dulinor's conspiracy) is set in motion...

Re: Terraforming the Solar System
 

I agree that it's fuzzy (Indeed, I said as much), but I don't think any current evidence necessitates putting the change point any further back than 1114 (my favorite) or even 1115. It seems pretty clear that Dulinor's conspiracy was on track (although probably already compromised) as late as when he left for Capital. There was a TNS newsbrief about some pre-paid chunks of media time that went mysteriously unused. I take that to be evidence that Dulinor's pre-planned announcements were set in motion (but scotched by secret agents after he left). It's quite possible that the first change Dulinor noticed[*] was on 132-1116.

[*] Well, he wouldn't have noticed, of course, but you know what I mean.

In any case, there are a lot of events from <whenever the CP was> to 1117 that wouldn't have been affected by the changes yet, so with a little judicious vetting, a lot of GTU material from those years are also usable as canon for the OTU. And the further you go into the past, the more sure we can be that events would have been the same in both universes.


Hans