Grapple SM question
 

So SM difference affects melee rolls to hit. For example, if Utahraptor (SM +2) attempts to stomp a snake alien (SM -4), my Brawling roll gets a -6 to hit. This is weird, as it doesn't seem to scale well (move Utahraptor up to Amphicoelias at SM +8 and explain how it can't stomp that damn snake without a -12 penalty), but that's another issue that's been beaten to death, and this question is about rules as written.

The rules for grappling say that larger creatures get a bonus when grappling smaller creatures equal to the difference in size modifier. This would give Utahraptor a +6 bonus to grapple the snake with its claws, feet, or jaws (ignoring Born Biter for simplicity's sake).

My question is, do these stack--that is, is grappling considered an attack for the purposes of the first rule? If so, that means that the grappling bonus for size always cancels out the attack penalty for size, and that makes it seem kind of silly to define an effective zero modifier as "+X, then -X". If not, then are there other "attacks" where the large size penalty does not apply?

* On the beaten to death issue, I have a personal opinion: Relative SM shouldn't modify attack rolls at all--it should modify dodge rolls, with dodge being disallowed or rapidly penalized when the cross-section of the attack is larger than a step or two for the target and they aren't on All-Out Defense. Even on AOD, if the cross-section is larger than the target can move in the attacker's turn (a second, unless Altered Time Rate is involved), then nix the dodge. In short: nobody ever has trouble kicking a dead cat.

Re: Grapple SM question
 

No, weapon sized does not come into it, until the weapon because big enough relative to the target that it effectively an Area attack.

Re: Grapple SM question
 

Which is automatic if there's 7 or more SM difference between the two of you. And seems to extend to "I'm wielding a weapon for someone 7 SM larger than me, because I'm a super hero. I smash you now."

I've listed every single rule in GURPS 4e that I can find relating to Size Modifier, with a page reference. http://ottgaming.grimoire.ca/Borderlands/Size_Modifier

That is #7 under positives for being bigger: "Easier to hit when you grapple (relative SM +1 or more, B402) "

Re: Grapple SM question
 

The rules are ambiguous as to whether the +1 per relative SM for grappling is in addition to the general -1 per relative SM for melee, or if it replaces it.

Re: Grapple SM question
 

I asked Kromm about this in a private PM a couple years ago:

munin: If an SM +3 giant tries to grapple an SM -2 halfling, does the +5 bonus (B402) stack with the -2 penalty (B19), producing a total +3 bonus? If the SM -2 halfling tries to grapple the SM +3 giant, he'd get +3 to hit (B19) and no penalty to grapple (B402), also producing a +3 bonus?

Kromm: Don't double-count. The rule for grappling supersedes the general rule for attack rolls. Only apply it. Do not then apply a second SM-related rule.

munin: Intuitively, ignoring a target's ability to dodge, it should be harder to grab a small target than to grab a large target...

Kromm: Grappling isn't grabbing. Grappling is actual wrestling moves. For that, being much larger is clearly an advantage. Grappling someone your size or bigger, you can't engulf the target. Grappling a mouse, you can. That's what the bonus represents.


However, back in 2005 Kromm posted this:

In explaining the difference to me by PM, he said this:

Kromm: The problem is that there's a big difference between engulfing your foe with your entire body (as in wrestling, where a human would have an overwhelming advantage) and just snatching something small in one hand (where a human would have a disadvantage). I think the game differentiates these cases poorly. It would be simple enough, though, to use one modifier in the first case and another in the second. Of course, this would be a GM call.

Re: Grapple SM question
 

Rereading Large Area Injury (B400), it doesn't mention whether or not this changes the attack roll for the attacker in any way (other than disallowing targeted attacks). Wouldn't you get some kind of bonus if you're aiming for something bigger than Torso? Would you just treat it as attacking their hex? Also, would the defender have to defend as if it were an area attack?

Re: Grapple SM question
 

It would be the same as attacking an area of a size equal to weapon size (or bullet / explosion size for ranged attacks).

Re: Grapple SM question
 

So what would the bonus or penalty on that be?

Also, thinking about a flyswatter, is it just allowing you to avoid the pulling-your-punches-to-not-hurt-your-hand-against-the-wall penalty, or is it offering some bonus or enabling some maneuver?

Re: Grapple SM question
 

Aww, Kromm. Why you no resolve ambiguity?

So, at small differences the size penalty does not apply, but at large differences it does apply, with no defined way of telling which is which nor a gradual progression from one to the other?

Something tells me they didn't think this one through. Gonna have to house rule it or something. Large area rules don't seem to help, and area attack seems strange (and it merely dodges the ambiguity rather than resolving it)

Thanks for the advice.

Re: Grapple SM question
 

No, it's the difference between trying to catch something with your hand ... and trying to catch something by throwing your entire body at it.

RAW, they're both grappling rolls, but Kromm is saying a GM might choose to let relative SM be a bonus for the latter (since being bigger is helpful when you throw your body at something) and a penalty for the former (since the target being smaller makes it harder to "hit" them with a grab), if they feel that better represents what's happening.