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Landwalker 08-12-2011 03:58 PM

[D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Howdy, folks!

Of late, I've been taken by the inclination to run a new game, most likely in the low-end (200-point to start with, I'm thinking) Dungeon Fantasy spirit, using the Rise of the Runelords adventure path from Paizo's Pathfinder d20 variant, beginning with the first adventure, Burnt Offerings. Of course, this means a considerable amount of taking the d20 versions of many challenges and encounters and turning them into something GURPSy.

Since I've never really developed a great deal of confidence in the trait/ability-modeling arm of GURPS character creation, I'd like to use this thread to present the d20 original and my GURPS recreation side-by-side, getting feedback on how best to appropriately and faithfully present the module's many challenges and adversaries.

Seems reasonable to start at the beginning, with what anyone familiar with Burnt Offerings knows is the first- and most-often-encountered opponent in the module: The Goblin!
Spoiler:  



So, throw that sucker into the GURPS machine, and here's what I have coming out:

Spoiler:  


So, what do people think?


P.S. I realize that this isn't exactly an earth-shattering conversion challenge. That's not what I'm shooting for. I'm just shooting for a reasonably faithful GURPS representation of the D20 module's various elements. And considering that this is an adventure for four First- through Fourth-Level PCs in Pathfinder, and the Goblin Warrior is the first enemy encountered, it isn't supposed to be earth-shattering.

P.P.S. My apologies for the suboptimal formatting of the write-ups. The forums delete multiple spaces and all tabs unless they're [CODE]-tagged, at least as far as I can tell, so I couldn't lay everything out as neatly or compactly as I would have liked.

sir_pudding 08-12-2011 04:02 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1229955)
Oversized Head (+1 to hit Face and Skull)

Based on the art alone, I'd consider just giving them Born Biter 1 (or maybe even 2).

Landwalker 08-12-2011 05:22 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Where exactly is the Born Biter you're thinking of? The only one I know about is in DF3, which doesn't have levels and also seems more like something appropriate to an alligator than a gluttonous "intelligent" humanoid.

sir_pudding 08-12-2011 05:25 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1230001)
Where exactly is the Born Biter you're thinking of? The only one I know about is in DF3, which doesn't have levels and also seems more like something appropriate to an alligator than a gluttonous "intelligent" humanoid.

Martial Arts. Page 50-ish, maybe 53? In a box about biting. It is leveled (1-3), and while appropriate for alligators, it doesn't have anything to do with intelligence and everything to do with large mouth size relative to body size, which Pathfinder Goblins certainly seem to have.

Landwalker 08-12-2011 05:35 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Ah-hah, there it is (MA.115—"Teeth").

My only concern about giving them Born Biter is that, while they do have oversized heads and mouths, their jaws aren't really elongated (that was the source of my comment about alligators and humanoids, not their relative intelligence), and their noses in particular aren't any more prominent (relative to their head) than those on a more familiarly-proportioned humanoid head.

What I could do is give them a variant of Born Biter to reflect their plus-sized pie-holes with the usual SM-related benefits, but trade the "Easier to hit their huge heads" for "easier to hit their jaws and noses."

Pragmatic 08-12-2011 07:16 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Why are you giving them points? Are you going to allow them as a PC race?

Landwalker 08-12-2011 07:19 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pragmatic (Post 1230043)
Why are you giving them points? Are you going to allow them as a PC race?

I'm not giving them points, at least if you mean what I think you mean (that is, I didn't say, "Okay, a Goblin Warrior has 38 points. Let's build it.") The "point total" next to their "intro line" was just for reference in case anyone was curious.

I'm starting in on the next item now—Goblin Warchanter! The main challenge is figuring out how to model the d20 Bard's "Inspire Courage" ability in GURPS.

Landwalker 08-12-2011 08:59 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
The next conversion representative is the Goblin Warchanter, the "support" of the goblin raiding parties. Although a weak (but agile) combatant individually, the Warchanter is able to command minor magics in order to boost the morale and performance of his fellow goblins and attempt to disrupt the raid's enemies.

D20 Information
Spoiler:  


GURPS Information
Spoiler:  

Dragondog 08-12-2011 10:33 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
You say that goblins hate and are afraid of dogs and horses, but I only see Phobia. What does their hate lead them to do? Is it Intolerance? Do dogs and horses have Enemy (goblins)? Is it only a Quirk?

Kuroshima 08-13-2011 01:58 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1230046)
I'm not giving them points, at least if you mean what I think you mean (that is, I didn't say, "Okay, a Goblin Warrior has 38 points. Let's build it.") The "point total" next to their "intro line" was just for reference in case anyone was curious.

I'm starting in on the next item now—Goblin Warchanter! The main challenge is figuring out how to model the d20 Bard's "Inspire Courage" ability in GURPS.

For the Inspire Courage, either take a look at the DF11 Bardsong songs (p. 20), or at the Auras of Power article on Pyramid #3/13

Pragmatic 08-13-2011 06:15 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
I'm a complete GURPS novice. But, just pulling words out of memory from other posts I've seen:

Affliction plus some advantage like Unfazeable, with the Bard Song limitation. Would that work?

Kuroshima 08-13-2011 07:05 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pragmatic (Post 1230226)
I'm a complete GURPS novice. But, just pulling words out of memory from other posts I've seen:

Affliction plus some advantage like Unfazeable, with the Bard Song limitation. Would that work?

It would "work" (for some definitions of work).

it would, however, not work as you expect: It would allow you to create a "courage missile". The target, if hit, would roll at HT+DR, and if he failed, he would gain the advantage for a number of minutes equal to his margin of failure.

In order to get the typical bard abilities, you need to add Malediction, Area Effect, Emanation OR Aura, and the Power Modifier (if you take the Bardsong power from DF, it includes needing to hear you sing/perform IIRC). You can, however, take a look at the bard songs on DF11, or to the Auras of Power, on Pyramid #3/13, to see meta-modifiers (that is, a package of modifiers) to make it much easier.

Landwalker 08-13-2011 07:49 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima (Post 1230179)
For the Inspire Courage, either take a look at the DF11 Bardsong songs (p. 20), or at the Auras of Power article on Pyramid #3/13

It's hard for me to look at things I don't have, I'm afraid. Unless you can get more specific, I'm stuck with what I do have (which, relevant to this case, is Basic, Powers (which I struggle with, as I'm fairly new to it), and DF 1-5).

I do, at least, have Dungeon Fantasy 1, which I looked at when I was originally getting ready to try to put the Warchanter together. Since the Bard-song power from that didn't include any of the archetypal "inspiration" abilities, I built my own affliction, but you're right in that I should have remembered the Bard-Song power modifier and applied it to the Inspire Courage affliction. I'll edit that in now.

So, in light of what I do have to work with, is there any better way I could model the Inspire Courage ability? Anything distinctly wrong that I did with it? Any recommendations about anything else?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragondog (Post 1230136)
You say that goblins hate and are afraid of dogs and horses, but I only see Phobia. What does their hate lead them to do? Is it Intolerance? Do dogs and horses have Enemy (goblins)? Is it only a Quirk?

Goblin swords are called "Dogslicers" for a reason — if a goblin can get past its phobia, it would like nothing more than to open a bloody smile for the offending canine (except, perhaps, to set the offending canine on fire).

I suppose this could be considered an Intolerance (Horses and Domesticated Dogs, -5 Reaction). I can add that to the basic "goblin template" now.

Kuroshima 08-13-2011 08:13 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1230248)
It's hard for me to look at things I don't have, I'm afraid. Unless you can get more specific, I'm stuck with what I do have (which, relevant to this case, is Basic, Powers (which I struggle with, as I'm fairly new to it), and DF 1-5).

I do, at least, have Dungeon Fantasy 1, which I looked at when I was originally getting ready to try to put the Warchanter together. Since the Bard-song power from that didn't include any of the archetypal "inspiration" abilities, I built my own affliction, but you're right in that I should have remembered the Bard-Song power modifier and applied it to the Inspire Courage affliction. I'll edit that in now.

So, in light of what I do have to work with, is there any better way I could model the Inspire Courage ability? Anything distinctly wrong that I did with it? Any recommendations about anything else?

The way you have it set up right now, there are a couple of issues:
  • It's affected by DR: Having Dr will make this ability word differently. I would add Affliction, and invoque the Beneficial Afflictions on Powers p. 40. Also, this will mean that you don't have to roll for each target, only for the warchanter
  • It's not sense based. Given that Maledicitions already ignore DR, you should take the Hearing-based limitation. EDIT: The bardsong power modifier takes care of this
  • Requires concentrate is for abilities you can leave on all the time. This is an instantaneous effect, that must be continued turn to turn. Remove requires concentrate
  • It lasts too long: Right now, those affected by the ability will keep the benefits for minutes. I would take Fixed Duration and Reduced Duration 1/60 (Found in Psionic Powers) to make this last 3 seconds after the warchanter stops singuing

Landwalker 08-13-2011 08:28 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Since I don't have the world's strongest grasp on Powers, I hope you don't mind a couple of questions so that I know where the issues are coming from.

Quote:

It's affected by DR: Having Dr will make this ability word differently. I would add Affliction, and invoque the Beneficial Afflictions on Powers p. 40. Also, this will mean that you don't have to roll for each target, only for the warchanter
I was originally planning to give the ability the Malediction enhancement, but I didn't (and still don't) quite understand how that works. From B.106, "The value of Malediction depends on the range modifiers it uses." But the Inspire Courage ability doesn't use range modifiers, as far as I can tell—it's just an eight-yard emanation, period. So how would Malediction be priced in this situation?

(I don't really care how it's priced for the Warchanter, but it's a valid PC ability as well, so the pricing could matter.)

Quote:

This is an instantaneous effect, that must be continued turn to turn.
Where can I find this laid out? I guess what I'm confused about on this point is how to model "The Warchanter can use this ability one time per day, but the one use lasts as long as he Concentrates on it." That's how I ended up (erroneously, I see from a closer reading) on Requires Concentrate, but I don't see how the normal Malediction/Affliction/Whatever rules achieve that goal.

Kuroshima 08-13-2011 08:42 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1230259)
Since I don't have the world's strongest grasp on Powers, I hope you don't mind a couple of questions so that I know where the issues are coming from.



I was originally planning to give the ability the Malediction enhancement, but I didn't (and still don't) quite understand how that works. From B.106, "The value of Malediction depends on the range modifiers it uses." But the Inspire Courage ability doesn't use range modifiers, as far as I can tell—it's just an eight-yard emanation, period. So how would Malediction be priced in this situation?

Emanation and Melee Attack+Aura both turn the affliction into something centered on the user. As such, there is no range to speak off (Once you add Area Effect, all targets in the area get the same effect). As such, pick Malediction 1 (the same that is used for melee afflictions)
Quote:

(I don't really care how it's priced for the Warchanter, but it's a valid PC ability as well, so the pricing could matter.)
Quote:

Obviously. If it was an NPC only thing, then you should simply stat it in plain English, and avoid worrying about how to build it.
Where can I find this laid out? I guess what I'm confused about on this point is how to model "The Warchanter can use this ability one time per day, but the one use lasts as long as he Concentrates on it." That's how I ended up (erroneously, I see from a closer reading) on Requires Concentrate, but I don't see how the normal Malediction/Affliction/Whatever rules achieve that goal.
First, I find the 1/day of D&D an artifact of the system. If you're dead set on keeping it, then the solution is to take Melee Attack, reach C; Aura; Limited Use, 1/Day; Requires Concentrate

Landwalker 08-13-2011 08:54 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima (Post 1230264)
Emanation and Melee Attack+Aura both turn the affliction into something centered on the user. As such, there is no range to speak off (Once you add Area Effect, all targets in the area get the same effect). As such, pick Malediction 1 (the same that is used for melee afflictions)

I assume you mean the "+100%" Malediction, right?

Quote:

First, I find the 1/day of D&D an artifact of the system. If you're dead set on keeping it, then the solution is to take Melee Attack, reach C; Aura; Limited Use, 1/Day; Requires Concentrate
I'm not really dead-set on keeping it.* It just seemed like a convenient thing to do. I would also be amenable to figuring out a way to work in Costs FP. My understanding is that "Costs Fatigue 1 [-5%]" would mean, in this case, "Must spend 1 FP each time the Warchanter triggers the ability, and an additional 1 FP/minute beyond the first if the Warchanter maintains it for that long."

What makes Melee Attack (Reach C) + Aura the appropriate way to model the ability, as opposed to Area Effect (X Yards) + Emanation? Aura specifically says it affects "anyone you touch or who touches you," not those around you.



* In fact, Pathfinder (the source material for this exercise) also does not have Uses/Day for the Bardic Performance abilities. It allows using it for a number of rounds equal to 4+Charisma Modifier. This would allow a Pathfinder Warchanter to use Inspire Courage for 5 six-second rounds each day.

Dragondog 08-13-2011 09:00 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1230248)
Goblin swords are called "Dogslicers" for a reason — if a goblin can get past its phobia, it would like nothing more than to open a bloody smile for the offending canine (except, perhaps, to set the offending canine on fire).

I suppose this could be considered an Intolerance (Horses and Domesticated Dogs, -5 Reaction). I can add that to the basic "goblin template" now.

I was just curious about it being absent from the stats, feel free to do whatever you think is most suitable.

If Inspire Courage has an 8 yard radius, Melee Attack + Aura isn't suitable, but Malediction could be useful.

Kuroshima 08-13-2011 09:05 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1230266)
I assume you mean the "+100%" Malediction, right?

Yep

Quote:

I'm not really dead-set on keeping it.* It just seemed like a convenient thing to do. I would also be amenable to figuring out a way to work in Costs FP. My understanding is that "Costs Fatigue 1 [-5%]" would mean, in this case, "Must spend 1 FP each time the Warchanter triggers the ability, and an additional 1 FP/minute beyond the first if the Warchanter maintains it for that long."

What makes Melee Attack (Reach C) + Aura the appropriate way to model the ability, as opposed to Area Effect (X Yards) + Emanation? Aura specifically says it affects "anyone you touch or who touches you," not those around you.



* In fact, Pathfinder (the source material for this exercise) also does not have Uses/Day for the Bardic Performance abilities. It allows using it for a number of rounds equal to 4+Charisma Modifier. This would allow a Pathfinder Warchanter to use Inspire Courage for 5 six-second rounds each day.
Melee Attack+Aura+Area Effect means that you have a continous "aura" that covers an area around you, and that affects those that enter it when they enter ir, and once during your turn for every turn afterwards. Emanation+Area Effect means that you can create a split second pulse during your turn, that affects those around you. This is a fundamental change once you factor in modifiers that play with the duration of the ability: Limited use, 1/day for the Aura version would mean that you get one minute of effect, for the emanation version, it would mean that you get one pulse.

EDIT: Oh, and you can combine Aura with Area effect, just in case it was not clear from the comment above. It works as you expect.

Dragondog 08-13-2011 09:07 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1230266)
I assume you mean the "+100%" Malediction, right?



"Costs Fatigue 1 [-5%]" would mean, in this case, "Must spend 1 FP each time the Warchanter triggers the ability, and an additional 1 FP/minute beyond the first if the Warchanter maintains it for that long."

I believe that is the Malediction he is suggesting, yes. But you could use any of them. That form of Malediction would give you a -8 penalty at 8 yards.

Costs Fatigue 1 would mean that you spend 1 FP to activate it for 1 minute and half that for each subsequent minute.

gmjasongurps 08-13-2011 09:07 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
so nice that you are doing this, i think i am getting ready to start a GURPS Rise of the Runelords campaign shortly as well. Hopefully we can find some good stuff to share for this!

Dragondog 08-13-2011 09:09 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima (Post 1230268)
EDIT: Oh, and you can combine Aura with Area effect, just in case it was not clear from the comment above. It works as you expect.

Good to know!

Landwalker 08-13-2011 09:13 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Ah, that does clear it up. I was assuming that Area Effect couldn't be combined with Aura/Melee Attack, and that the only way to get "affects X yards around you" was with Emanation.

So, if Costs FP works the way I think it does, the final version would look like this:

Inspire Courage (Affliction 1) [+53 CP]: Advantage (+1 DX), Area Effect (8 Yards), Aura, Bard-Song Power, Costs FP (2 FP to initiate, 1 FP to maintain each minute), Fixed Duration, Malediction (Melee), Melee Attack (Reach C), Reduced Duration 1/60 (Effect persists 3 seconds after termination), Requires Skill (Singing), Selective Area, Sense-Based (Hearing)

Kuroshima 08-13-2011 09:55 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1230276)
Ah, that does clear it up. I was assuming that Area Effect couldn't be combined with Aura/Melee Attack, and that the only way to get "affects X yards around you" was with Emanation.

So, if Costs FP works the way I think it does, the final version would look like this:

Inspire Courage (Affliction 1) [+53 CP]: Advantage (+1 DX), Area Effect (8 Yards), Aura, Bard-Song Power, Costs FP (2 FP to initiate, 1 FP to maintain each minute), Fixed Duration, Malediction (Melee), Melee Attack (Reach C), Reduced Duration 1/60 (Effect persists 3 seconds after termination), Requires Skill (Singing), Selective Area, Sense-Based (Hearing)

Looks ok. just some caveats:
  • Sense-Based is already part of the Power Modifier
  • Requires Skill is not a standard limitation, and the ability already requires a roll due to Malediction. I would remove it, specially since Singing is an HT skill IIRC (or that might come from my memories of 3rd ed), and I never saw bardsong abilities dependent on how strong you can sing. I would make it based on IQ, though, since I don't see how it can work if it's based on Will.
  • You need Requires Concentrate or you will get a creature that can start to sing with a concentrate maneuver, and then keep it going and attacking at the same time
  • Oh, and it doesn't inspire courage, if it doesn't give fearlessness or Unfazeable
  • Finally, activating an Aura is a free action, you need to add Takes Extra< Time to make it into a concentrate maneuver (Keeping it active requires consecutive concentrate maneuvers thanks to Requires Concentrate)

Let's format it as if it was to be written in a book:

Inspire Courage
77 points


The bard knows hims that inflame the hearts of those who hear them, making them redouble their efforts in the face of adversity. To activate this ability, take a concentrate maneuver, pay 2 FP and roll IQ, plus any Bardic Magery, Bardic Talent or Bard-sing talent. If you succeed, all allies within 8 yards that can hear him experience a surge of morale, making them more resistant fear and panic, and also making them strike truer and harder. Mechanically, this gives them +1 DX, Striking ST 2, and Fearlessness 5. This effect lasts for 3 seconds. The bard must continue to sing every turn, taking consecutive concentrate maneuvers, and roll IQ every turn, to renew the duration. If he fails three rolls in a row, the effect ends, otherwise it lasts for a minute. Those who leave the area can enter it again, to recover or renew this effect.

Statistics: Affliction 1 (HT; Advantage, +1 DX, Fearlessness 5, Striking ST 2, +400%; Area Effect, 8 Yards, +150%; Aura, +80%; Based on IQ, +20%; Bard-Song, -30%; Costs 2 FP, -10%; Fixed Duration, +0%; Malediction, +100%, Melee Attack, Reach C, -30%; Nuisance Effect, 3 consecutive failed rolls end the effect, -5%; Reduced Duration 1/60, -35%; Requires Concentrate, -15%; Selective Area, +20%; Takes Extra Time, -10%) [77]

Landwalker 08-13-2011 10:36 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Sense-Based is already part of the Power Modifier
Ah, so it is. Duly noted.

Quote:

Requires Skill is not a standard limitation, and the ability already requires a roll due to Malediction. I would remove it, specially since Singing is an HT skill IIRC (or that might come from my memories of 3rd ed), and I never saw bardsong abilities dependent on how strong you can sing.
Indeed it isn't. I added it as a 0% modifier to replace the Will roll required by Malediction, since the whole point of the Bardic Performance abilities is, in fact, performance (in this case, singing). A better bard is better able to execute and maintain the ability, after all, and I didn't know how else to represent that.

(Of course, the Inspire Courage ability needn't necessarily be executed through singing. It could also be carried out through a musical instrument. The Goblin Wardancer just happens to be song-centric.)


Quote:

Advantage, +1 DX, Fearlessness 5, Striking ST 2, +450%
How do you get +450%? I only get +400% (+200% for DX, +100% for Fearlessness 5, and +100% for Striking ST 2).

Kuroshima 08-13-2011 10:49 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1230312)
How do you get +450%? I only get +400% (+200% for DX, +100% for Fearlessness 5, and +100% for Striking ST 2).

I had Unzazeable in there until I decided that it was too over the top... I'll edit the post

weby 08-13-2011 12:26 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
I am currently running a GURPS campaign where most of the Burnt Offerings adventure path is part of a larger prophesy of doom.

Started the campaign at 100+50 points, with templates used for the start and about 1/3 of future points are from templates too, 2/3 free placement but limited in how many points you can put into attributes and such. It is a fairly high point gain campaign at about +1 charater point/hour of play. They are currently at about 230 points after 19 sessions

I decided to basically just run the D20 monsters as direct conversion as base and then tweak as needed. So for example on the spellsinger I did not do exact power writeup as it is really not needed as it is a NPC power so I just noted the effects she gave to the other goblins.

The same with the goblin warriors, I did not worry about things like exact advantages/disadvantages and such, as the things I needed to know about the goblins were the combat things, thus my goblin warriors came out as:

Small Humanoid (Goblinoid) SM:-2
Attack: Dogslicer 13 melee (1d)
javelin 13 ranged (1d-1)
shield: 13
Abilities: St 11, Dx 13, Ht 11, Iq 10, Will 9, reaction: -2 HP:13
Speed: 6, dodge:10, Parry:10, block:10 Armor: leather: Dr 2
Darkvision 60 ft.
Skills: Steath 13, Per:13 Ride 12

Landwalker 08-13-2011 12:48 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by weby (Post 1230358)
I decided to basically just run the D20 monsters as direct conversion as base and then tweak as needed. So for example on the spellsinger I did not do exact power writeup as it is really not needed as it is a NPC power so I just noted the effects she gave to the other goblins.

The same with the goblin warriors, I did not worry about things like exact advantages/disadvantages and such, as the things I needed to know about the goblins were the combat things

Yes, that's how a normal person would do it, and I know how much this forum likes to jump down the throats of anyone who dares fully building run-of-the-mill NPCs. I certainly could take the usual shortcuts and just say "Eh, I think Goblin Warriors are about a Shortsword 12" and call it good. I'm simply choosing not to in order to get more practice (1) with simply converting d20 blocks to GURPS blocks in case I ever wanted to convert something PC-relevant, and (2) with building special abilities. I've done almost nothing with this before, so working my way through things like Inspire Courage or (coming up next!) the Goblin Dog's "Allergic Reaction" ability is a good way for me to familiarize myself with the GURPS modeling of more "extraordinary" d20 abilities that don't necessarily have a simple, direct analog.

So, yeah. I could do it the quick and dirty way and just get things running, but I'm consciously choosing not to, because "getting things running" is only part of the objective of this exercise.

Now that I'm happy with where the Wardancer is (and thank you for all your help, Kuroshima), later this afternoon I plan to throw together the rat-faced Goblin Dog. Hopefully the Allergic Reaction affliction will a more straight-forward one.

weby 08-13-2011 12:57 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Oh, there is nothing wrong with doing full builds, and I will definitely follow your progress with intrest, I just mentioned the approach I took.

Landwalker 08-13-2011 02:23 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
And now, the Goblin Dog!

Goblin Dogs are flat-nosed, rat-faced beasts with tiny clawed forelimbs and long, hairless, pink tails, giving them a decidedly verminous appearance. They are ugly, craven, and irritable, and even the healthiest look sickly and starved due to their horrible appearance and constant itching. Few men or beasts would consort with something that smells like a dozen dogs soaked in sewage, but Goblins keep and breed them, using them as companions on raids and occasionally as mounts.

D20 Information

Spoiler:  



GURPS Information
Spoiler:  

AmesJainchill 08-13-2011 03:20 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
...Why does the Goblin Dog have so many combat skills that require...hands?

Landwalker 08-13-2011 03:35 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AmesJainchill (Post 1230440)
...Why does the Goblin Dog have so many combat skills that require...hands?

Ah, whoops! Good catch. I accidentally left in the Goblin Warchanter's skills instead of replacing them with the Goblin Dog's.

All fixed now.

I've also modified the Dog's advantages slightly with 2 levels of Silence to reflect its racial Stealth bonus.

Captain-Captain 08-13-2011 05:22 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
D&D Combat Reflexes should translate to Extra Attack with a lot of restrictions.

Landwalker 08-13-2011 05:48 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain (Post 1230504)
D&D Combat Reflexes should translate to Extra Attack with a lot of restrictions.

Attacks of Opportunity in general have no analog at all in GURPS—other than, indeed, "Extra Attack with a lot of restrictions." But since any d20 character can already make at least one GURPS-non-existent AoO (otherwise, every character would have an Extra Attack with a lot of restrictions), I don't feel the need to recognize any change for a character who can make multiple GURPS-non-existent AoOs.

I did consider just giving the Warchanter the GURPS version of Combat Reflexes (+1 Defenses, improved Fright resistance, better at resisting surprise), but I wasn't really sold.

sir_pudding 08-13-2011 06:07 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1230523)
Attacks of Opportunity in general have no analog at all in GURPS—other than, indeed, "Extra Attack with a lot of restrictions."

AoOs are only an artifact of the six second combat turn. GURPS with it's more discrete actions doesn't need anything of the sort.

A character with Combat Reflexes in D&D is just a character played with a good understanding of when to Wait in GURPS.

Landwalker 08-13-2011 07:41 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Doesn't look like the Dog is raising a lot of eyebrows, so I'll start moving on towards the Goblin Commando.

Before I roll out the full conversion, there's an equipment issue for the Commando that I need to determine


d20 Stats

Potion of Rage: The affected creature gains +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +1 the Willpower saves, and -2 to AC. The duration for a common potion is about 30 seconds.



There doesn't seem to be any single GURPS potion or spell effect that could cover all of this. There is the Berserker spell (M.134), but "All-Out Attack Every Round" is just a bit more severely penalizing than "-2 AC".

Obviously, I could just make up a potion with very specific effects (+1 ST, +1 DX, +1 Will, -2 to all defenses, 30 seconds), but before I take that way out, I'd like to see if there's some other way to go about it.

Landwalker 08-14-2011 02:16 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
D20 Information

Spoiler:  

GURPS Information

Spoiler:  

Kuroshima 08-14-2011 03:40 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1230902)
consternation is that the d20 "Barbarian Rage" ability has no analog in GURPS, even in DF 1, so there's nothing to go on there.
[/font][/spoiler]

There is an analog, in DF11. It gives a big ST boost, at a huge ST cost, and requires the user to have the berserk disadvantage (but not to be berserking while using it).

I know I'm starting to sound repetitive, but DF 11 will help you design many of the iconic D&D abilities.

Landwalker 08-14-2011 04:24 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Alright, alright, you win. I bought the infernal thing. =P

I'm guessing that what you're referring to is the Great Rage ability for the Barbarian. Which does seem to be at least a step in the right direction even without capturing all of the elements, since it's really just a big (really big) ST burst.

Even so, I'm not sure how one would translate that into a potion, unless you just called it an advantage-granting potion, 20 CP = 500 Energy, ÷ 5 for single-use = 100 Energy, and then price it from there (even though potion-brewing doesn't really parallel the crafting of magic items, it doesn't seem too unreasonable to use the same pricing scheme as Quick & Dirty Enchantment, which would make such a potion around $100).

That's actually how I ended up putting together the potion above: 15 CP (+1 ST, +1 DX, +1 Will is collectively [+35], and I assigned an arbitrary [-20] to the -2 Defenses) = 375 Energy, ÷ 5 for single use, -5% For Reduced Duration (assuming 1-minute base duration) = 71 Energy. I'm not wildly satisfied with it, both because of the disconnect between the linear effect of modifiers in d20 vs. the bell-curve effect in GURPS and because it just seems like a very... crude way to put together a magical potion.

/Tangent and back to the Great Rage from DF 11, I suppose to make it a closer parallel to the D20 ability, one would move the FP cost to the end of the ability rather than the beginning. But that still leaves the rest of the effects at issue.

Kuroshima 08-14-2011 04:37 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1230979)
Alright, alright, you win. I bought the infernal thing. =P

I'm guessing that what you're referring to is the Great Rage ability for the Barbarian. Which does seem to be at least a step in the right direction even without capturing all of the elements, since it's really just a big (really big) ST burst.

Even so, I'm not sure how one would translate that into a potion, unless you just called it an advantage-granting potion, 20 CP = 500 Energy, ÷ 5 for single-use = 100 Energy, and then price it from there (even though potion-brewing doesn't really parallel the crafting of magic items, it doesn't seem too unreasonable to use the same pricing scheme as Quick & Dirty Enchantment, which would make such a potion around $100).

That's actually how I ended up putting together the potion above: 15 CP (+1 ST, +1 DX, +1 Will is collectively [+35], and I assigned an arbitrary [-20] to the -2 Defenses) = 375 Energy, ÷ 5 for single use, -5% For Reduced Duration (assuming 1-minute base duration) = 71 Energy. I'm not wildly satisfied with it, both because of the disconnect between the linear effect of modifiers in d20 vs. the bell-curve effect in GURPS and because it just seems like a very... crude way to put together a magical potion.

/Tangent and back to the Great Rage from DF 11, I suppose to make it a closer parallel to the D20 ability, one would move the FP cost to the end of the ability rather than the beginning. But that still leaves the rest of the effects at issue.

Now that you have it, look at the bard songs too, under bard powerups. ;)

As for moving the FP cost to the end of the effect, it would halve the limitation value, as per Aftermath (though not RAW, it's IMHO an acceptable extension)

EDIT: As for the potion, I would make it a combination Potion (It's Pure Chemistry, Pyramid #3/28, p. 7) of Battle and Strength potions. You might aff a quick to it, that it gives berserk, for a minor cost decrease.

Landwalker 08-14-2011 06:45 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Damn you and your successful salesmanship. I hope you're getting a commission.

By the looks of it, the Combination Potion (with some sort of "Temporary Disadvantage" modifier and Reduced Duration) would probably work out well. Maybe:

Potion of the Champion
Effects: +1d ST, +1d DX, Bravery
Side Effects: On the Edge (CR 12) [-15%]
Duration: 1 minute [-35%]
Cost: $540



I looked at the Bardic Song stuff on DF11.20, as well. With the exception of "Based on Per," it looks like what I was shooting for originally (with the Emanation thing), as least for the Beneficial Song. The sample songs will definitely be helpful when coming up with other songs, as well. Thanks for the recommendation—looks like it'll be a good pick-up.

gmjasongurps 08-17-2011 08:50 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
so what's next on your conversion plate?

Landwalker 08-17-2011 09:14 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Well, I've been out of town all week on a business trip (bleh), so I haven't been able to do much converting.

Since it doesn't look like the Potion is getting much more discussion, once I get home tomorrow night, I'll start in on the next item on the list. I'm going to skip Gresgurt, since he's just a Goblin Commando with the Knife skill and no potion for the most part, and move on to the first human opponent the PCs encounter, Tsuto Kaijitsu (what, you thought this thread wasn't going to have spoilers? Edward Norton is Tyler Durden, by the way), the slippery half-elf who is at least partially to blame for the fact that the first three enemy types the PCs encounter are all goblins.

In d20 terms, Tsuto is a Rogue 1 / Monk 2. Unfortunately, being unarmored in GURPS is a lot more severe than being unarmored in d20, and fighting unarmed is even more of a problem (although Tsuto prefers fighting at range with a longbow, the d20 version carries no melee weapons and relies on the monk class's unarmed strikes and flurry of blows ability). As such, Tsuto may end up being less of a "conversion" and more of a "rebuilding."

Landwalker 08-19-2011 02:18 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
As with the Commando, Tsuto Kaijitsu has a magical item that I would like to nail down before going whole-hog with the conversion.

D20 Item

A Ring of Protection +1. This gives a +1 deflection bonus to AC. It is always on, and applies to Touch AC and Flat-Footed AC as well.


The issue is that I don't have a lot of experience or familiarity with how GURPS magic items are assumed to work or how they are "built" by a GM, so below is what I think the GURPS conversion of this ring would be:

GURPS Item

Ring of Deflection +1.
This is a simple metal ring with a Deflect (+1) Enchantment (Magic, pg. 67), conferring a +1 DB against all attacks. The ring is always on and requires no energy or fatigue investment in order to function.
Energy Cost to Create: 100
Market Value: $2,000 (Second-Hand, M.21)


My understanding is also that, if the ring is struck, it is likely to be destroyed, owing to its small size and, likely, minimal DR (I figure that a normal ring is unlikely to have more than 2 HP and 2 DR). Of course, it would be very difficult to deliberately strike the ring, in any case.

In d20, magic items are customarily difficult to just destroy, although they are (save the major artifacts) destructible one way or another. I'm not sure how to add that quality to a ring such as this, but considering the difficulty of hitting the ring in the first place, that may be a non-issue.

Dragondog 08-19-2011 03:35 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
You could use the rules regarding partial armor in LT and UT to figure out the weight/cost/DR for armor that only covers as much as a ring does.

I'd guess somewhere close to 0.05% of full body coverage for weight and cost. Light Style for 2/3 of weight, cost, and DR. And Stylish Cut, for x4 price.

Lets say we're using Jousting Mail from LT. That's starting with DR 6, $1,500, and 30 lbs.

With the above formula we get:
DR: 6*2/3 = 4
Cost: 1500*0.0005*2/3*4 = $2
Weight: 30*0.0005*2/3= 0.01 lbs

If we allow for heavy plate, we get:
DR: 9*2/3 = 6
Cost: 4000*0.0005*2/3*4 ~ $5
Weight: 32*0.0005*2/3 ~ 0.01067 lbs

Not to say anything about the modifiers in DF1. Or the fact that you can use magic on the ring to protect itself too.

And by size it's at least -11 to hit.

Kuroshima 08-19-2011 04:51 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Don't over-complicate things. DF8 gives you prices for rings of diverse materials. For example, a silver ring weights 0.15 lbs and costs $115. It's so light, that I would say that any damage destroys it, but it's so small, that hitting it should be almost impossible, unless you aim for it (calculate the SM).

Oh, and Deflect+1 is a good match for a +1 AC ring.

Landwalker 08-19-2011 05:02 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Alright, here he is—the first "PC-race" enemy encountered by the players. Tsuto Kaijitsu was a tough conversion that I ended up playing pretty loose, thanks to the D20 version's Monk class levels.

D20 Information

Spoiler:  



And hoo-boy, here it goes:

GURPS Information

Spoiler:  



Edit: I am actually not happy at all with how Tsuto is looking right now. I may completely overhaul him later tonight to no longer be an unarmed fighter. Possible modifications include switching to nunchaku, a staff, or dual-wielding sais, and will probably universally entail some improvements to his mediocre physical qualities.

Landwalker 08-19-2011 08:36 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
And here is the rebuild! I rejiggered Tsuto to dual-wield sais and wear a bit of armor. I feel like he maintains his martial-artist feel without either being completely impotent or demanding an overly complicated build to make him viable. The sais also still let him have an unusual quality that makes him stand out — and Bind Weapon should give my axe-toting dwarf PC fits.

D20 Information

Spoiler:  


GURPS Information

Spoiler:  

Dragondog 08-20-2011 12:48 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima (Post 1234251)
Don't over-complicate things. DF8 gives you prices for rings of diverse materials. For example, a silver ring weights 0.15 lbs and costs $115. It's so light, that I would say that any damage destroys it, but it's so small, that hitting it should be almost impossible, unless you aim for it (calculate the SM).

Oh, and Deflect+1 is a good match for a +1 AC ring.

I don’t have DF8, so I didn’t know about that.

For Tsuto:
* I would have added Enhanced Dodge
* Some skills don't list skill level
* I would have given Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Intimidation, and Flute higher skill levels
* I would have added Research and Search

Landwalker 08-20-2011 07:37 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragondog (Post 1234396)
For Tsuto:
* I would have added Enhanced Dodge
* Some skills don't list skill level
* I would have given Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Intimidation, and Flute higher skill levels
* I would have added Research and Search

— Fixed the accidental omission of Tsuto's Jitte/Sai level (which is 14) and Disguise/TL3 and Lockpicking/TL3 (which are both 11).
— Tsuto did originally have Enhanced Dodge when he was more "monkish," since parrying was out of the question. However, with the overhaul to sai-fighting instead, I dropped Enhanced Dodge and moved him over to Enhanced Parry. He's still no slacker in the Dodge department, though.
— Initially I took the position that Search in d20 isn't really the same as Search in GURPS. The former is "examine a room or wall or what have you for something of interest;" the latter is "Oppose Holdout and Smuggling," something of the "Airport-Security Skill." However, looking through everything again, I can't find a GURPS skill that explicitly corresponds to "D20 Search," so "GURPS Search" seems like as good a choice as any, unless someone knows differently. In the meantime, I've added Search 13 to Tsuto's sheet.
— D20 Gather Information is decidedly not GURPS Research. It's basically a combination of Carousing, Streetwise, and Savoir-Faire. Though he has no Savoir-Faire skills, Tsuto already has Social Chameleon and Streetwise. I've also added Carousing 11 to his skill list.

Other Edits:

— I've added a note about Tsuto's effective dodge.
— I've corrected the point value of his rebuild.
— I've added a note about Tsuto's "GM Whim" style.
— I corrected the damage line for Tsuto's sai attacks (was formerly 1d+2 imp, instead of 1d+2 cr / 1d-1 imp), and made the Sais Fine quality (+1 imp damage)

Dragondog 08-20-2011 10:09 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1234483)
— Initially I took the position that Search in d20 isn't really the same as Search in GURPS. The former is "examine a room or wall or what have you for something of interest;" the latter is "Oppose Holdout and Smuggling," something of the "Airport-Security Skill." However, looking through everything again, I can't find a GURPS skill that explicitly corresponds to "D20 Search," so "GURPS Search" seems like as good a choice as any, unless someone knows differently. In the meantime, I've added Search 13 to Tsuto's sheet.
— D20 Gather Information is decidedly not GURPS Research. It's basically a combination of Carousing, Streetwise, and Savoir-Faire. Though he has no Savoir-Faire skills, Tsuto already has Social Chameleon and Streetwise. I've also added Carousing 11 to his skill list.

I guess that's what I get for going by memory.

isf 08-20-2011 02:43 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1234483)
— D20 Gather Information is decidedly not GURPS Research. It's basically a combination of Carousing, Streetwise, and Savoir-Faire. Though he has no Savoir-Faire skills, Tsuto already has Social Chameleon and Streetwise. I've also added Carousing 11 to his skill list.

Here's Kromm's post on Gather Information in Gurps.

Landwalker 08-20-2011 05:58 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Since Tsuto isn't a build with any terribly complicated elements, I'll go ahead and kick off the next stage of conversion, which has quite a few uncommon elements, starting with the Wrathspawn.

D20 Information

Spoiler:  


GURPS Information

Spoiler:  

gmjasongurps 08-25-2011 08:51 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
anything new for your pathfinder conversions?

Gold & Appel Inc 08-26-2011 05:48 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1234795)
Dark Vision; Night Vision 9;

Night Vision is redundant if they have Dark Vision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1234795)
As usual, I'm not sure about the affliction. I didn't bother trying to build it to mirror the "repeated doses" effect of the d20 build, but if there's a convenient way to do that, I'm open to suggestions.

The Side-Effect enhancement in Basic may be closer to what you want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmjasongurps (Post 1237953)
anything new for your pathfinder conversions?

Seems like if there was, he'd post it...

Dragondog 08-26-2011 08:15 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc (Post 1238112)
Night Vision is redundant if they have Dark Vision.

Not completely redundant as you see in color with Night Vision.

Landwalker 08-26-2011 11:40 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Nothing since the Wrathspawn (immediately above). I'd been hoping that the Wrathspawn's special abilities would spark some more discussion on my poor grasp on the Affliction rules, but obviously that has failed to materialize.

I've spent the interim doing other, non-conversion work related to the adventure, namely working out character creation rules and racial templates. That said, there are certainly quite a few more things left to convert, and the first Wrathspawn sighting is pretty much the kick-off for a long series of adversaries with more complicated characteristics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc
Night Vision is redundant if they have Dark Vision.

Quote:

Not completely redundant as you see in color with Night Vision.
Ah, both bits good to know! Not that these guys are being built on a budget, but every bit of knowledge helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc
The Side-Effect enhancement in Basic may be closer to what you want.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll take a look at it later today when I get the chance and see if I can work out how it could apply.

Dragondog 08-26-2011 12:01 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
* Your affliction doesn't need Blood Agent or Melee Attack as it is a follow-up
* Does Extra Attack (Brawling) only allow you to make a second attack if you use Brawling?

Kuroshima 08-26-2011 12:02 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1238246)
Nothing since the Wrathspawn (immediately above). I'd been hoping that the Wrathspawn's special abilities would spark some more discussion on my poor grasp on the Affliction rules, but obviously that has failed to materialize.

Personally, I would create a new irritant condition, on the same scale than Pain (and with a single advantage or disadvantage that makes halves the penalties, in this case, I think that it would be Pacifism).

Mild Wrath: -2 to all DX, IQ and Self Control rolls.
Severe Wrath: -4 to all DX, IQ and Self Control rolls. You can not take All Out Defense, unless you are a Pacifist.
Terrible Wrath: -6 to all DX, IQ and Self Control rolls. You can not take All Out Defense or Defensive Attack, unless you are a Pacifist.
Fury: Everything becomes red-tinged. As Terrible Wrath, but you Also suffer the effects of Berserk, and you as if you had the disadvantage, and you had failed your self control roll. If you are a Pacifist, treat this as Terrible Wrath.

Pacifist characters are more used to restrain their violent impulses, and so only suffer half the penalties due to Wrath.

Oh, and I would make it that Symptom of the Wrathful Bite attack: Mild Wrath at after losing 1/3 HP to this ability, Severe Wrath after losing 1/2 HP to this ability, Terrible Wrath after losing 2/3 HP to this ability, and Fury after losing full HP to this ability.

Landwalker 08-26-2011 12:25 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragondog (Post 1238258)
* Your affliction doesn't need Blood Agent or Melee Attack as it is a follow-up
* Does Extra Attack (Brawling) only allow you to make a second attack if you use Brawling?

* Why is that? Shouldn't the fact that it is a follow-up to a melee attack make it a Melee Attack? Shouldn't it still need Blood Agent, since it only works if it penetrates the target's DR (I don't see anything in the Follow-Up enhancement description that says a successful "carrier attack" that hits, but which does no damage due to DR, still delivers the Follow-up effect)?

* That's the intention. The mechanical goal is to allow the Wrathspawn to make two attacks per round: A DWA with both claws, followed by a Bite (which would use Brawling and be the Extra Attack in this case).


Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima
Personally, I would create a new irritant condition...

I like that solution a lot. It maintains the "increasing effect" feel of the original ability and seems to be pretty closely paralleling existing rules (which makes me more comfortable with it).

I might fiddle around with it just so that taking any damage from the Wrathful Bite would trigger "Mild Wrath," and then taking damage in excess of the various thresholds kicks it up a notch. Pending figuring out the Melee Attack / Blood Agent issue, something like this:

Wrathful Bite

Affliction 1 [10 base] — Mild Wrath (-2 to DX, IQ, and Self-Control; halved for characters with Pacifism; automatically forces a Bad Temper roll for characters with that disadvantage) [+20%]; Follow-Up (Bite) [+0%]; Resisted by Will [+20%]; Symptom: Severe Wrath (As above, but -4 to rolls, and non-Pacifist characters cannot take All-Out Defense; 1/3 basic HP, x3) [+120%]; Symptom: Terrible Wrath (As Severe Wrath, but -6 to rolls, and non-Pacifists cannot make Defensive Attacks; 1/2 basic HP, x2) [+80%]; Symptom: Fury (As Terrible Wrath, but non-Pacifists also immediately suffer Berserk (with a base SC of 6, which causes automatic failure due to Terrible Wrath); 2/3 basic HP, x1) [+20%]

Final Cost: [+36 Points]


With both Melee Attack (Reach C) [-30%] and Blood Agent [-40%], the Final Cost would be [+29 Points].

Dragondog 08-26-2011 12:58 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1238266)
* Why is that? Shouldn't the fact that it is a follow-up to a melee attack make it a Melee Attack? Shouldn't it still need Blood Agent, since it only works if it penetrates the target's DR (I don't see anything in the Follow-Up enhancement description that says a successful "carrier attack" that hits, but which does no damage due to DR, still delivers the Follow-up effect)?

Perhaps I should have said, cannot have, rather than doesn't need, to make this clearer.

"A Follow-Up attack need only list its damage amount and type. All other details depend on the carrier attack." B105

Thus, if the carrier is a melee attack, the follow-up is also a melee attack and cannot have that limitation.

As both Follow-up and Blood Agent are "penetration modifiers" you can only have one of them.

Quote:

* That's the intention. The mechanical goal is to allow the Wrathspawn to make two attacks per round: A DWA with both claws, followed by a Bite (which would use Brawling and be the Extra Attack in this case).
I'm not sure what kind of limitation that would be, not that it matters when constructing a NPC.

Quote:

Affliction 1 [10 base] — Mild Wrath (-2 to DX, IQ, and Self-Control; halved for characters with Pacifism; automatically forces a Bad Temper roll for characters with that disadvantage) [+20%]; Follow-Up (Bite) [+0%]; Resisted by Will [+20%]; Symptom: Severe Wrath (As above, but -4 to rolls, and non-Pacifist characters cannot take All-Out Defense; 1/3 basic HP, x3) [+120%]; Symptom: Terrible Wrath (As Severe Wrath, but -6 to rolls, and non-Pacifists cannot make Defensive Attacks; 1/2 basic HP, x2) [+80%]; Symptom: Fury (As Terrible Wrath, but non-Pacifists also immediately suffer Berserk (with a base SC of 6, which causes automatic failure due to Terrible Wrath); 2/3 basic HP, x1) [+20%]
This way you will have Mild Wrath as soon as you are afflicted and only as long as the affliction lasts. When you've lost 1/3HP you will also have Severe Wrath which will last until you have more than 2/3HP even if the affliction and the Mild Wrath effect has ended by then. Severe Wrath will be replaced by more severe Wrath effects as you lose more HP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima (Post 1238259)
Personally, I would create a new irritant condition, on the same scale than Pain (and with a single advantage or disadvantage that makes halves the penalties, in this case, I think that it would be Pacifism).

We'd also need a trait to double the effect. Bad Temper seems to be the best fit. Unless the limited choices balances that.

Kuroshima 08-26-2011 01:14 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1238266)
* Why is that? Shouldn't the fact that it is a follow-up to a melee attack make it a Melee Attack? Shouldn't it still need Blood Agent, since it only works if it penetrates the target's DR (I don't see anything in the Follow-Up enhancement description that says a successful "carrier attack" that hits, but which does no damage due to DR, still delivers the Follow-up effect)?

Blood Agent on a Follow-Up is worth -0%
Quote:

* That's the intention. The mechanical goal is to allow the I like that solution a lot. It maintains the "increasing effect" feel of the original ability and seems to be pretty closely paralleling existing rules (which makes me more comfortable with it).

I might fiddle around with it just so that taking any damage from the Wrathful Bite would trigger "Mild Wrath," and then taking damage in excess of the various thresholds kicks it up a notch. Pending figuring out the Melee Attack / Blood Agent issue, something like this:

Wrathful Bite

Affliction 1 [10 base] — Mild Wrath (-2 to DX, IQ, and Self-Control; halved for characters with Pacifism; automatically forces a Bad Temper roll for characters with that disadvantage) [+20%]; Follow-Up (Bite) [+0%]; Resisted by Will [+20%]; Symptom: Severe Wrath (As above, but -4 to rolls, and non-Pacifist characters cannot take All-Out Defense; 1/3 basic HP, x3) [+120%]; Symptom: Terrible Wrath (As Severe Wrath, but -6 to rolls, and non-Pacifists cannot make Defensive Attacks; 1/2 basic HP, x2) [+80%]; Symptom: Fury (As Terrible Wrath, but non-Pacifists also immediately suffer Berserk (with a base SC of 6, which causes automatic failure due to Terrible Wrath); 2/3 basic HP, x1) [+20%]

Final Cost: [+36 Points]


With both Melee Attack (Reach C) [-30%] and Blood Agent [-40%], the Final Cost would be [+29 Points].
First, the Wrath levels should be priced as the pain levels, meaning that:
  • Mild Wrath should cost +20% (as Moderate Pain)
  • Severe Wrath should cost +40% (as Severe Pain)
  • Terrible Wrath should cost +60% (as Terrible Pain)
  • Fury should should cost +100% (As Agony)

If building this as a Character, the issue is that imposing Mild Wrath automatically requires quite a lot of levels of affliction. Also, instead of making it a followup, you could use the rules for modifying ST-based damage. Here's what I propose:

Thrust 1d-1->0.7d
As a crushing innate attack, this equals 0.7x5=3.5 points (Basic says you round up before, Psionic Powers says that you can skip rounding until the end, to avoid math issues with double roundups)

Modifiers:
  • Accessibility, only on a single attack, -60%
  • Symptoms, Severe Wrath, 1/3 HP lost (Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%), +72%
  • Symptoms, Terrible Wrath, 1/2 HP lost (Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%), +72%
  • Symptoms, Fury, 2/3 HP lost (Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%), +90%
Total: 174%
This is applied to the base of 3.5 points, but without counting the base 3.5 points, gives us:
3.5*(1+174/100)-3.5=3.5*1.74=6.09, rounded to [7]

You also take Toxic Attack, 30 points, equivalent to 0.25+29*0.3=8.95d, with the following enhancements:
  • Follow-Up, Bite, +0%
  • No Wounding, -50%
  • Side Effect, Mild Wrath, +70%
Total +20%

8.95d of toxic damage with a +20% enhancement cost 8.95*4*1.2=42.96, rounded to [43], for a total cost of [50]

Mechanically, it works as follows:
When damaged by the wrathful bite, the target makes an HT-15 roll (and quite probably fails, though he can always resist with a 3 or 4, and this is a metabolic hazard, thus resistance to metabolic hazards applies), or gets afflicted with Mild Wrath for minutes equal to his margin of failure. If the bite does not penetrate, then as it's a toxic attack, it does causes no further effects, and does not try to penetrate DR on it's own. Also, keep track of the amount of damage caused by the wrathful bite. When it exceeds 1/3 of the character's HP, Mild Wrath gets updated to Severe Wrath, when it exceeds 1/2 of the character's HP, it gets updated to Terrible Wrath, and finally, when it exceeds 2/3 of the character's HP, it gets upgraded to Fury.

Statistics: Modified ST Damage, 1d-1 (Accessibility, only on a single attack, -60%; Symptoms, Severe Wrath, 1/3 HP lost (Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%), +72%; Symptoms, Terrible Wrath, 1/2 HP lost (Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%), +72%; Symptoms, Fury, 2/3 HP lost (Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%), +90%) [7]+Toxic Attack, 30 points (Follow-Up, Bite, +0%; No Wounding, -50%; Side Effect, Mild Wrath, +70%) [43]

Dragondog 08-26-2011 01:29 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima (Post 1238287)
If building this as a Character, the issue is that imposing Mild Wrath automatically requires quite a lot of levels of affliction. Also, instead of making it a followup, you could use the rules for modifying ST-based damage. Here's what I propose:

Where do you find the rules for modifying ST-based damage?

Kuroshima 08-26-2011 01:37 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragondog (Post 1238295)
Where do you find the rules for modifying ST-based damage?

GURPS Powers p. 146

Landwalker 08-26-2011 02:03 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Well, that's a lot of stuff I'm not quite following. Let me try to walk through it and see if I can sort it out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima
First, the Wrath levels should be priced as the pain levels, meaning that...

I believe that's what I did. The only difference I had in base modifier value was that Fury was priced as Berserk (Self-Control 6) and treated as a "Disadvantage-inducing Affliction" instead of as a parallel to Agony, which gave it a base modifier value of [+20%] based on B.36. Considering that Fury is basically "Goes Berserk" and doesn't override or erase the other wrath effects, I'm not seeing why it would be priced as anything other than a Disdvantage-inducing Affliction. Are you saying that Fury does override Terrible Wrath, and thus has to include all of the effects of Terrible Wrath in addition to the new effects of Fury (hence the high base cost)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima
If building this as a Character, the issue is that imposing Mild Wrath automatically requires [emphasis mine] quite a lot of levels of affliction.

I'm afraid I'm not picking up on this. If we're treating Mild Wrath as analogous to Moderate Pain, I don't see any reason why it would require anything more than Affliction 1 and a Will-0 resistance roll. Why does it automatically require a high Affliction level?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima
Also, instead of making it a followup, you could use the rules for modifying ST-based damage.

Ah, thanks for beating me to asking for a page reference on this, Dragondog. God knows I wasn't going to find it on my own. Since the Wrathspawn's Bite attack is Cutting, not Crushing, shouldn't the base for going this route be (0.7d) * (7 points / level, B.61) = 4.9 points?

I also don't understand what the purpose or advantage is of doing this way instead of doing it as a Follow-Up to a normal, melee, natural unarmed attack. What does this route offer that the Follow-up route doesn't?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima
Symptoms, Severe Wrath, 1/3 HP lost (Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%), +72%

That seems like a pretty stiff limitation for something that can only be delievered by the same carrier as Mild Wrath in the first place, though I agree that if somebody resists the Mild Wrath affliction, they won't (or shouldn't) jump straight to Severe Wrath if they take additional damage without failing a resistance roll.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima
You also take Toxic Attack, 30 points, equivalent to 0.25+29*0.3=8.95d

Huh? From this point through the end (namely, what this has to do with Mild Wrath side effects), it's all going way, way over my head.

Sorry to be so clueless in all this, and I know that my bumbling must be getting tired (it certainly is getting tired for me!), but it's tough trying to tackle some of these things without any significant prior experience with all of the many and scattered parts of GURPS that you need to construct them.

Naturally, I have other questions, but those can wait. Baby steps...

Kuroshima 08-26-2011 02:38 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1238318)
Well, that's a lot of stuff I'm not quite following. Let me try to walk through it and see if I can sort it out.

Ok, no problem.
Quote:

I believe that's what I did. The only difference I had in base modifier value was that Fury was priced as Berserk (Self-Control 6) and treated as a "Disadvantage-inducing Affliction" instead of as a parallel to Agony, which gave it a base modifier value of [+20%] based on B.36. Considering that Fury is basically "Goes Berserk" and doesn't override or erase the other wrath effects, I'm not seeing why it would be priced as anything other than a Disdvantage-inducing Affliction. Are you saying that Fury does override Terrible Wrath, and thus has to include all of the effects of Terrible Wrath in addition to the new effects of Fury (hence the high base cost)?
Simple cost symmetry. Still, the ability to cause Berserk instantly all the time should be giving the following disadvantage:

Berserk (N/A) (Battle Rage, +50%) [-37] (Resisting with N/A means you auto-fail, and it's x2.5, as per Powers p. 106). Still, being forced into Berserk, with no chance of snapping out (meaning that you WILL attack your friends after you finish your foes, untill you kill them or you) is well worth +100% as an affliction IMHO, and the price difference is so small, that I liked I had the whole ability for 50 points exactly ;)

Quote:

I'm afraid I'm not picking up on this. If we're treating Mild Wrath as analogous to Moderate Pain, I don't see any reason why it would require anything more than Affliction 1 and a Will-0 resistance roll. Why does it automatically require a high Affliction level?
Ah, I though you wanted anyone bitten to get Mild Wrath automatically, with no resistance roll.
Quote:

Ah, thanks for beating me to asking for a page reference on this, Dragondog. God knows I wasn't going to find it on my own. Since the Wrathspawn's Bite attack is Cutting, not Crushing, shouldn't the base for going this route be (0.7d) * (7 points / level, B.61) = 4.9 points?
No, you always calculate based on your thrust damage, and as a crushing attack. You're already paying for your bite damage being cutting when you buy shap teeth
Quote:

I also don't understand what the purpose or advantage is of doing this way instead of doing it as a Follow-Up to a normal, melee, natural unarmed attack. What does this route offer that the Follow-up route doesn't?
How else do you add Armor Divisor to your punches, for example?
Quote:

That seems like a pretty stiff limitation for something that can only be delievered by the same carrier as Mild Wrath in the first place, though I agree that if somebody resists the Mild Wrath affliction, they won't (or shouldn't) jump straight to Severe Wrath if they take additional damage without failing a resistance roll.
Well, you can argue that the limitation might be a little too large, but hell, we're speaking about minuscule amounts of points here, and it costs 43 points to almost ensure that any successful attack will trigger Mild Wrath. Also, Mild Wrath is much easier to remove with Healing (Cure Affliction), and removing it will cancel all the symptoms (that would otherwise be irremovable until the damage was healed)
Quote:

Huh? From this point through the end (namely, what this has to do with Mild Wrath side effects), it's all going way, way over my head.
Well, Affliction is mostly overpriced if you want to take multiple levels, so I had to find a way to give Mild Wrath to the target in a way that reduced his chances to resist as much as possible. Doing it as a Toxic Innate Attack (that has the cheapest cost per dice, and that on top, works as if it had blood agent when combined with Folloup) was the easiest way to do it. Still, let's deconstruct it:

30 points of damage =>8.95d, is a direct application of the partial dice rules: The first point costs 0.25d, and any extra points cost 0.3d. You follow me right?

Ok, then I add no wounding (meaning that the wounding modifier is x0) and Side Effect (meaning that the target must check at HT-half the penetrating damage, or suffer an affliction effect). The thing is, Side Effect does not care about wounding modifiers, it cares about penetrating damage, that is, damage after DR and before wounding modifiers. As I said, Toxic damage is special, in the sense that it doesn't try to penetrate DR independently if the carrier doesn't penetrate, but as a Follow-Up if the carrier penetrates, then all the damage is penetrating damage.

The net effect is that anyone who gets bitten must, on top of the damage inflicted by the bite, make an HT roll against half the penetrating damage of the Follow-Up, but we've already stated that if ANY damage penetrates, then ALL damage penetrates, and otherwise, NO damage penetrates. Since the damage is exactly 30, then the exact penalty to resist is -15, every time.
Quote:

Sorry to be so clueless in all this, and I know that my bumbling must be getting tired (it certainly is getting tired for me!), but it's tough trying to tackle some of these things without any significant prior experience with all of the many and scattered parts of GURPS that you need to construct them.

Naturally, I have other questions, but those can wait. Baby steps...
Don't worry. This is why I said that you don't need to build it as a PC, unless it's needed as a PC. Now, to me, it served as practice in ability building and SJG style writeups, but then again, I sometimes get some crunchy articles published on Pyramid ;)

Landwalker 08-26-2011 03:56 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Simple cost symmetry. Still, the ability to cause Berserk instantly all the time should be giving the following disadvantage:

Berserk (N/A) (Battle Rage, +50%) [-37] (Resisting with N/A means you auto-fail, and it's x2.5, as per Powers p. 106). Still, being forced into Berserk, with no chance of snapping out (meaning that you WILL attack your friends after you finish your foes, untill you kill them or you) is well worth +100% as an affliction IMHO, and the price difference is so small, that I liked I had the whole ability for 50 points exactly ;)
That makes sense. I'd forgotten that disadvantages could have "N/A" as a self-control number. Although, pin this to the board for a follow-up question coming shortly.

Quote:

How else do you add Armor Divisor to your punches, for example?
My ig'nant self would have just used a straight Innate Attack and modified it from there, I suppose. Of course, my ig'nant self would have also made it a Cutting Innate Attack (for clawed/toothy such attacks, that is).

In this case, though, I guess my question can more specifically be, "Is there anything related to this specific special attack that lends itself better to the Modifying ST-Based Damage rules rather than the Follow-Up Affliction rules?"

Quote:

30 points of damage =>8.95d, is a direct application of the partial dice rules: The first point costs 0.25d, and any extra points cost 0.3d. You follow me right?
Okay, I see where you're getting this now. So far, so good, and I get where you're going with the rest of the modifiers (No Wounding, Side Effect), so I think I'm solid on how you put that together now, and I get how you figured all the Symptom-based stuff.

So, bearing in mind that I don't actually want the Mild Wrath to be an automatic effect, I think this is where the ability currently stands:

Wrathful Bite: Modified ST Damage, 1d-1 (Accessibility, only on a single attack, -60%; Symptom, Severe Wrath, 1/3 HP Lost [Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%], +72%; Symptom, Terrible Wrath, 1/2 HP lost [Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%], +72%; Symptom, Fury, 2/3 HP lost [Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%], +90%) [7 Points] + Affliction 1, Mild Wrath (Follow-Up, Bite, +0%; Sense-Based, Will, +20%) +40% [12 points]

Mechanics: When damaged by a bite attack, the Target makes a Will-0 roll. Failure causes the Mild Wrath condition for minutes equal to margin of failure. If the bite does not penetrate, then, as a follow-up attack, it has no further effect. As the character accumulates Wrathful Bite damage, the symptoms go into play and persist indefinitely until the injuries are healed.


Now, assuming that's correct, it's time for that follow-up question I alluded to earlier, in two parts:

(1) How would this change if I wanted the symptoms to have the same limited duration as the Mild Wrath base?

(2) Does it even matter, since it seems to me that if Mild Wrath expires, then the subsequent conditions would expire as well?

(Not that that matters, either, I don't imagine. Someone who is afflicted with Fury for even one minute is probably still going to be frothing-at-the-mouth crazy when your average combat is over until his allies manage to subdue him.)


Quote:

Now, to me, it served as practice in ability building
And that's exactly what I'm shooting for, so that when I really do have to build these crazy things for PCs, I'll be able to. Otherwise I'd just say "Eh, have some ability penalties because you're really angry now." But, after all, practice makes slightly-less-imperfect!


-------

Post-Script Question: Based on these rules, would Fury go into effect before or after the victim's HT roll to stay conscious for hitting 0 HP?

Kuroshima 08-26-2011 04:23 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1238375)
That makes sense. I'd forgotten that disadvantages could have "N/A" as a self-control number. Although, pin this to the board for a follow-up question coming shortly.

My ig'nant self would have just used a straight Innate Attack and modified it from there, I suppose. Of course, my ig'nant self would have also made it a Cutting Innate Attack (for clawed/toothy such attacks, that is).

In this case, though, I guess my question can more specifically be, "Is there anything related to this specific special attack that lends itself better to the [b]Modifying ST-Based Damage[/i] rules rather than the Follow-Up Affliction rules?"

You can't use symptoms with Afflictions. Hell, Afflictions are plain not worth using if you can use side effects and symptoms.
Quote:

Okay, I see where you're getting this now. So far, so good, and I get where you're going with the rest of the modifiers (No Wounding, Side Effect), so I think I'm solid on how you put that together now, and I get how you figured all the Symptom-based stuff.

So, bearing in mind that I don't actually want the Mild Wrath to be an automatic effect, I think this is where the ability currently stands:

Wrathful Bite: Modified ST Damage, 1d-1 (Accessibility, only on a single attack, -60%; Symptom, Severe Wrath, 1/3 HP Lost [Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%], +72%; Symptom, Terrible Wrath, 1/2 HP lost [Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%], +72%; Symptom, Fury, 2/3 HP lost [Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%], +90%) [7 Points] + Affliction 1, Mild Wrath (Follow-Up, Bite, +0%; Sense-Based, Will, +20%) +40% [12 points]
Use 1 point Toxic Follow-Up instead of the affliction, as otherwise, the target would have to make the Will roll to even if the attack doesn't penetrate, though he would get a bonus equal to DR. Also, it's cheaper this way:

Toxic Attack, 1 point (Based on a Different Attribute, Will, +20%; No Wounding, -50%; Side Effect, Mild Wrath, +70%) [2]
Quote:

Mechanics: When damaged by a bite attack, the Target makes a Will-0 roll. Failure causes the Mild Wrath condition for minutes equal to margin of failure. If the bite does not penetrate, then, as a follow-up attack, it has no further effect. As the character accumulates Wrathful Bite damage, the symptoms go into play and persist indefinitely until the injuries are healed.
Small nitpick, but you should track the Wrathful Bite damage even if they resist the affliction, as until they're healed, any time they get afflicted with Mild Wrath, they suffer the symptoms.
Quote:

Now, assuming that's correct, it's time for that follow-up question I alluded to earlier, in two parts:

(1) How would this change if I wanted the symptoms to have the same limited duration as the Mild Wrath base?
See above, this build already makes the symptoms last only for as long as the Mild Wrath base lasts (but inflicting a new Mild Wrath reactivates the symptoms, so if you've suffered let's say, 7 points of Wrathful Bite and you've got 10 HP, then anything that causes you Milt Wrath trigger Fury)
Quote:

(2) Does it even matter, since it seems to me that if Mild Wrath expires, then the subsequent conditions would expire as well?

(Not that that matters, either, I don't imagine. Someone who is afflicted with Fury for even one minute is probably still going to be frothing-at-the-mouth crazy when your average combat is over until his allies manage to subdue him.)
Egg-zactly, unless you toss some reduced duration on the affliction (This was canonized in Psionic Powers). Toss in Fixed Duration if you want (+0%, gives you MoF 3, regardless of the actual MoF, so combined with Reduced Duration 1/60 would get you 3 second bursts of anger).
Quote:

And that's exactly what I'm shooting for, so that when I really do have to build these crazy things for PCs, I'll be able to. Otherwise I'd just say "Eh, have some ability penalties because you're really angry now." But, after all, practice makes slightly-less-imperfect!
Glad I could help, trust me, I got myself a lot of practice with afflictions when writing the Auras of Power article.
Quote:

Post-Script Question: Based on these rules, would Fury go into effect before or after the victim's HT roll to stay conscious for hitting 0 HP?
I would say that after as the HT roll is instantaneous when you hit 0 or less FP, and the follow-up only fires after the attack penetrates. Still, it's open to GM interpretation (I used to know the timing rules for MtG like the back of my hand, back in the times of 4th-7th edition, when I played, so my view might be biased by that)

Landwalker 08-26-2011 04:56 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Use 1 point Toxic Follow-Up instead of the affliction, as otherwise, the target would have to make the Will roll to even if the attack doesn't penetrate, though he would get a bonus equal to DR.
That was the reason behind me originally giving the affliction Blood Agent. I'm still not clear why the Follow-up + Blood Agent combination doesn't fly.

So, assuming that Follow-up + Blood Agent isn't the way to go with this, the final version of Wrathful Bite would be:

Statistics: Modified ST Damage, 1d-1 (Accessibility, only on a single attack, -60%; Symptom, Severe Wrath, 1/3 HP Lost [Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%], +72%; Symptom, Terrible Wrath, 1/2 HP lost [Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%], +72%; Symptom, Fury, 2/3 HP lost [Only on targets afflicted by Mild Wrath, -40%], +90%) [7 Points] + Toxic Attack, 1 point (Based on Will, +20%; No Wounding, -50%; Side Effect, Mild Wrath, +70%) [2 points]

Total Cost: 9 CP.

That makes the Wrathspawn's total write-up as follows:

Spoiler:  

These suckers are going to be a right pain for an unlucky or ill-prepared PC, but fortunately some decent armor will set them in order.

Now that that's out of the way, I am free to tackle the next obstacle: A Vargouille...

Dragondog 08-26-2011 05:58 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1238410)
That was the reason behind me originally giving the affliction Blood Agent. I'm still not clear why the Follow-up + Blood Agent combination doesn't fly.

If you read the descriptions of Follow-up and Blood Agent, you'll see that both of them are "penetration modifiers," as I mentioned earlier. And a trait can only have one "penetration modifiers."

Landwalker 08-26-2011 06:15 PM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragondog (Post 1238446)
If you read the descriptions of Follow-up and Blood Agent, you'll see that both of them are "penetration modifiers," as I mentioned earlier. And a trait can only have one "penetration modifiers."

I understand that the rules prohibit it from flying. I don't understand why the rules prohibit it from flying.

Kuroshima 08-27-2011 03:20 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1238458)
I understand that the rules prohibit it from flying. I don't understand why the rules prohibit it from flying.

Already posted the link, but make sure to check this FAQ entry for the explanation.

Landwalker 08-27-2011 06:52 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
I did see that, and from what I can tell, it's essentially saying "Follow-up and Blood Agent can both be applied to the same attack. There's just no discount for doing so."

I spent last night working on the Vargouille, and after a great deal of frustration, I think I finally have, in the Vargouille Kiss special ability, the first "the-hell-with-it-hand-wave" that I'm not even going to properly convert. The Vargouille's paralyzing shriek and poisonous bites, while equally frustrating in their own rights, did eventually manage to get some conversion. More on this later after I get it properly written up.

Kuroshima 08-27-2011 07:02 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
I don't remember how the Vargouille Kiss special ability precisely works, but shouldn't Dominance or Infectious Attack be enough? I mean, do the newly created Vargouilles have to obey their creator?

Landwalker 08-27-2011 07:30 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima (Post 1238670)
I don't remember how the Vargouille Kiss special ability precisely works, but shouldn't Dominance or Infectious Attack be enough? I mean, do the newly created Vargouilles have to obey their creator?

They don't, and at first my thought was to just call it an Infectious Attack, although it really isn't a disadvantage for them ("Oh no I created another me how absolutely dreadful!"), plus it's something they use voluntarily, unlike, for example, lycanthropy. It's basically the Vargouille's method of reproduction.

Here's the d20 version of the ability, from the Pathfinder SRD:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pathfinder SRD
A vargouille can kiss a helpless target by making a successful melee touch attack (this provokes attacks of opportunity). A kissed opponent must succeed on a DC 16 Fortitude save or begin a terrible transformation that changes the creature into a vargouille within 24 hours (and often much sooner; roll 1d6 separately for each phase of the transformation). First, over a period of 1d6 hours, all the victim's hair falls out. Within another 1d6 hours thereafter, the ears grow into leathery wings, tentacles sprout on the chin and scalp, and the teeth become long, pointed fangs. During the next 1d6 hours, the victim takes Intelligence drain and Charisma drain equal to 1 point per hour (to a minimum of 3). The transformation is complete 1d6 hours thereafter, when the victim's head breaks free of the body (which promptly dies) and becomes a vargouille. This transformation's progress is paused by sunlight or any light spell of 3rd level or higher, but stopping the transformation requires remove disease or a similar effect. The transformation is a disease effect. The save DC is Constitution-based and includes a +4 racial bonus.


Kuroshima 08-27-2011 07:48 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landwalker (Post 1238675)
They don't, and at first my thought was to just call it an Infectious Attack, although it really isn't a disadvantage for them ("Oh no I created another me how absolutely dreadful!"), plus it's something they use voluntarily, unlike, for example, lycanthropy. It's basically the Vargouille's method of reproduction.

Here's the d20 version of the ability, from the Pathfinder SRD:

I would still make it an Infectious Attack, or at least use those mechanics.

If the newly created vargouille isn't going to turn against it's creator, then the infectious attack is probably nothing more than a quirk.

Landwalker 08-27-2011 08:11 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Alright, here is the train-wreck that is the Vargouille. Creepy, bat-winged, disembodied head and all.

D20 Information

Spoiler:  



GURPS Information

Spoiler:  

Dragondog 08-27-2011 09:36 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Regarding the Wrathspawn and its ability to see in the dark, Dark Vision (Color Vision +20%) costs 4 points less than Dark Vision and Night Vision 9, but as this is an NPC, it might not be important right now.

Landwalker 08-27-2011 09:39 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragondog (Post 1238705)
Regarding the Wrathspawn and its ability to see in the dark, Dark Vision (Color Vision +20%) costs 4 points less than Dark Vision and Night Vision 9, but as this is an NPC, it might not be important right now.

Ah, that's a good call. I'll make the adjustment. Thanks.

Dragondog 08-27-2011 11:14 AM

Re: [D20 to GURPS] Burnt Offerings Conversions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima (Post 1238679)
I would still make it an Infectious Attack, or at least use those mechanics.

If the newly created vargouille isn't going to turn against it's creator, then the infectious attack is probably nothing more than a quirk.

How does this make Infectious Attack worth less? As I read it, you either have control or you don't. What the newly changed creature does, unless controlled, is up to it and shouldn't change the cost of Infectious Attack.


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