[MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?
 

I'm trying to figure out how an anti-aging spell would work for RPM. Specifically, when do you have to use multiple effects?

A spell to prevent aging could be treated as:

1. A Crossroads Greater Transform effect (significantly altering the time of the living subject, which is always a greater affect)
2. A Crossroads Greater Restore effect (healing the passage of time of the living subject, which is always a greater affect)
3. A Crossroads Strengthen effect (protecting the a living subject from the effects of time, targeting the living is always a greater affect)
4. A Lesser Transform, Restore, or Strength effect for Body (altering, healing, or protecting the living in a subtle way)
5. A Greater Crossroads effect and a Lesser Body effect
6. A Lesser Crossroad effect and a Lesser body effect, with the introduction of the Path of Body increasing the base energy cost but simplifying the Crossroads effect to lesser

It looks to me that option #5 is the most correct reading of the rules, but it seems odd that a Greater Crossroads effect that is Greater specifically because it targets a being also has have a Body element. That would seem to imply that to damage someone with lightning I'd have to use a Body effect and an Energy effect, which looks like it would get expensive in a hurry.

The ghost-banishing example on p 34 seems to imply that you only need 1 path that applies to the target, but I'm not sure if that's entirely applicable since you're destroying the connection and the ghost is withering, just like destroying the rope that summon is hanging from with Path of Matter will likely cause them to die from gravity, and the caster doesn't have to invoke Path of Matter or Path of Energy for that.

Any thoughts?

Re: [MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?
 

I'd go with both a Crossroads and a Body effect, and at least one of them, possibly both, should be Greater. De-aging magic is generally really difficult, so I don't think a Greater Crossroads + Greater Body effect would be stretching anything. And no, you don't need a Body effect to damage someone with lightning.

Re: [MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?
 

I'd require this only for conjuring lightning within the target's body (which wouldn't allow an active defense, for example). As long as you create a bolt of lightning and hurl it at the target, it's just an Energy effect.

As for an anti-aging ritual, I'd go with a Greater Transform Crossroads (significantly alter the passage of time for the subject) and Greater Transform Body (significantly alter the natural processes of the body). Halting aging should be one of the hardest things to do with magic, so two Greater Transform effects are perfectly fine, even though it could be argued that lower-tier effects could be used.

Re: [MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?
 

When in doubt, go with Greater. As a rule, it should be obvious when a Lesser effect is called for; if it isn't obvious, you're probably dealing with Greater. And a person ceasing to age? Not very believable or natural.

Now, I can see some players arguing, "What if the ritual is only for a month? Not aging for a month is hardly unbelievable -- no one could even tell." While that's right, it's also a little disingenuous, because you know anyone who casts such a ritual is going to go back and inexpensively prolong the duration (Post-Casting, p. 37) on a regular basis. I mean, that's how these spells work, whether you cast one for a month or for a century; you work a crazy-powerful ritual once, then keep it alive with much easier "refresher castings" in the future. So "believability based on casting duration" is a bit of a red herring.

(Not that anyone here was arguing the above -- just figured I'd address that one ahead of time.)

Re: [MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?
 

Thanks, Rev. That answers the Greater/Lesser question, and provides a very useful guideline for duration based castings.

It doesn't really address the Time vs Body vs Time & Body question. Especially since it's a Greater effect by default, I can easily see a player say its just a Greater Body Restore effect to heal the damage caused by aging (or at worst an Alter effect). Alternately, a Greater Time effect specifically targets beings, so why do I need another Body path element?

Re: [MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?
 

restore states to heal or undo a transformation. you can't heal aging, you can undo it but its not a transformation. now transform says to significantly alter subject, so thats what you would need to use to change the age of someone.

how about greater transform crossroads + greater transform body, and use duration to determine how much aging is reversed. so:

(8 + 8 + 11(for 1 month of unaging)) * 5 = 135

for turning a 60yo into a 20yo:

(8 + 8 + 61) * 5 = 385

OR

greater transform body giving them the unaging advantage for 1 month (or 40yrs):

(8 + 15 + 11) * 3 = 102

(8 + 15 + 61) * 3 = 252

you can use both! turn a 60yo into a 20yo and make it so that they don't age for 40 years:

((8 + 8 + 61) + (8 + 15 + 61) * 7 = 1127!

Re: [MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?
 

I'd say "okay" and then the player would wonder why his ritual doesn't work the next time he casts it within a year :D

Yes, it's perfectly believable not to age for a month once per year hehee.

Re: [MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?
 

Yeah you live to be 84, but look 77. :-P

-Joshua

Re: [MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?
 

Which path or paths would be most appropriate to conjuring up a storm as a Lesser Effect - i.e., not so quickly that it seems unnatural, but a pretty rapid weather change over the course of ten minutes or so?

Re: [MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?
 

Matter for rain, hail etc and Energy for wind, lightning etc - this is actually written out in MH1. But it would have to already be cloudy for it to be a lesser effect IMO.

Re: [MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?
 

Depends where you live. There are plenty of places in the Midwest where clouds can roll in and storms start inside of ten minutes, easy, so anybody who lived there would not look at it as being in any way unnatural or less than believable.

Re: [MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?
 

MH1 p33 addresses storms specifically: you need Path of Energy for the wind and Path of Matter for the precipitation.

I'd rule that Strengthen Energy could be used to intensify existing winds, Control Energy and Control Matter to force existing clouds to move to your will, and Create Energy and Create Matter to cause clouds to form from clear skies.

To make it subtle and believable, the ritual needs to be slow and cover a massive area. Having the weather change in a 100 mile radius over the course of 6-12 hours is perfectly reasonable, and in some areas (Cleveland, Ohio and other lakeside cities known for fickle weather) you could probably bring that down to as little as an hour. That incurs a big charge for area (60-70 energy) but it saves paying for 2 Greater effects (x5 cost).

A "Summon Stormfront" effect might be Control Energy and Control Matter, 100 mile radius, 12 hour duration, 5 tons weight (how much does a cloud weigh, anyway?), and 20 energy for -3 to all ranged combat and sense rolls. With a total cost of (10+60+6+6+20) 102 energy, effective skill-20 pulls this off safely (<5% critfail chance), skill-18 pulls this off with some luck (~10% critfail chance), and people with skill-14 or less explode spectacularly.

The typical starting witch can safely pull this off with a $1500 grimoire; sages need to focus on Energy and Matter or have a $7500 grimoire. Inhuman or Techie dabblers should really leave this one to the professionals.

A "Summon local storm" effect might be Greater Create Energy and Greater Create Matter, 30 yard radius, 10 minute duration, 1000 lbs weight, -3 to ranged combat and sense rolls... cost is 5*(14+1+4+20) for 195 energy, which means really only a witch or specialized sage can do this, and preferably while standing on a big sacred site with a good grimoire and having Extraordinary Luck.

Re: [MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?
 

If these numbers are factual, I think the estimated weight is off for those rituals. (900~ tons every cubic kilometer of thunderstorm, spread over a 160 km radius ... Ouchie.)

Re: [MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?
 

Weights for area effects are based on the heaviest item in the area, not total weight.

Looking over the way I statted the ritual, I could argue that the target of the ritual are the people being blinded by the rain, not the clouds.

Re: [MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?
 

Yeah, the caster should probably 'only' pay for the area, the duration, and the modifiers imposed on the people and monsters in the area, not for the weight of the clouds or the air moved as wind or anything like that.

It also seems a bit off for the time for the storm to form, its onset time if you will, to count against the duration, as opposed to paying for duration based on how long the storm sticks around once it's actually started. After all, you'd think a shorter onset time would be more difficult, although a large part of that is it becoming a Greater Effect if the storm gathers with unnatural speed.

Still, I maintain that the threshold between Lesser and Greater Effect for the time it takes a storm to brew, even from scattered clouds to full-on thunderstorm, in many parts of the country is no more than an hour, perhaps even considerably less. If you're starting from overcast, it could be on the order of minutes.