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-   -   Battlesuits for smaller users... (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=77754)

Christopher R. Rice 03-07-2011 02:45 PM
Battlesuits for smaller users...
 
While designing a ally for a player I came to the realization that Battlesuits sized for smaller users give *full* bonuses for DR, Lifting/Striking ST, etc. What the heck?! Is there errata for this somewhere? Has David Pulver said something in a similar thread? Or one of the other authors/designers?

Does anyone else find this odd? If so how do you recommend dealing with it? I thought about just scaling down the benefits with the size modifier. So a SM-1 Battlesuit receives 10% less DR, ST, and so on. I suppose this would also make more sense for larger creatures as well, but a cap would be needed, I'm thinking no higher than +/- 80% in either way.

Thoughts?

Thanks to any who answer

Ghostdancer

vitruvian 03-07-2011 03:12 PM
Re: Battlesuits for smaller users...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer (Post 1134695)
While designing a ally for a player I came to the realization that Battlesuits sized for smaller users give *full* bonuses for DR, Lifting/Striking ST, etc. What the heck?! Is there errata for this somewhere? Has David Pulver said something in a similar thread? Or one of the other authors/designers?

Does anyone else find this odd? If so how do you recommend dealing with it? I thought about just scaling down the benefits with the size modifier. So a SM-1 Battlesuit receives 10% less DR, ST, and so on. I suppose this would also make more sense for larger creatures as well, but a cap would be needed, I'm thinking no higher than +/- 80% in either way.

Thoughts?

Thanks to any who answer

Ghostdancer
I can see justifying keeping the same bonuses by saying that if fitting to a smaller person, they just 'build in' the space in which the user fits and the corresponding control surfaces and interfaces, putting in some empty space as necessary, so that the battlesuit itself is the same size as usual, it's just the passenger area that's smaller. This should work at least to SM -1, beyond that you might have trouble with the 'limb inside limb' control paradigm and need to start refitting the controls extensively to be more mecha pilot-like.

David Johnston2 03-07-2011 03:32 PM
Re: Battlesuits for smaller users...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer (Post 1134695)
While designing a ally for a player I came to the realization that Battlesuits sized for smaller users give *full* bonuses for DR, Lifting/Striking ST, etc. r
Really? I can't find anywhere that it says that.

jacobmuller 03-07-2011 03:36 PM
Re: Battlesuits for smaller users...
 
There are charts for modifying living beings according to size in Biotech, pg63-64.
I'd be tempted to play around with those, applying them as proportional mods to smaller/ larger suits, to see what came out.

SM-1 would be perhaps -30% ST, 1/3rd weight? So a 480lb suit giving ST+20 to SM0 would become a 160lb suit giving ST+14 to SM-1... Nah, couldn't be.

Christopher R. Rice 03-07-2011 03:42 PM
Re: Battlesuits for smaller users...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 (Post 1134730)
Really? I can't find anywhere that it says that.
It doesnt say it reduces bonuses anywhere, so my assumption (which could be wrong) is that it *doesnt* and therefore a SM-(whatever) gives the same bonuses as a SM 0 (which doesn't make sense to me).

Christopher R. Rice 03-07-2011 03:43 PM
Re: Battlesuits for smaller users...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobmuller (Post 1134735)
There are charts for modifying living beings according to size in Biotech, pg63-64.
I'd be tempted to play around with those, applying them as proportional mods to smaller/ larger suits, to see what came out.

SM-1 would be perhaps -30% ST, 1/3rd weight? So a 480lb suit giving ST+20 to SM0 would become a 160lb suit giving ST+14 to SM-1... Nah, couldn't be.
Now thats not a bad idea (scurries to open his book)

Ghostdancer

David Johnston2 03-07-2011 04:02 PM
Re: Battlesuits for smaller users...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer (Post 1134738)
It doesnt say it reduces bonuses anywhere, so my assumption (which could be wrong) is that it *doesnt* and therefore a SM-(whatever) gives the same bonuses as a SM 0 (which doesn't make sense to me).
A battle suit for a dwarf or a giant would be a totally different piece of hardware.

Christopher R. Rice 03-07-2011 04:05 PM
Re: Battlesuits for smaller users...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 (Post 1134753)
A battle suit for a dwarf or a giant would be a totally different piece of hardware.
Yes, I get that. The problem I am having conceptualizing is the ST 3 SM-4 with a Battlesuit getting a +10 to Lifting and Striking ST and 150 DR...its smaller so shouldn't the bonuses it gives be reduced...somehow?

Ghostdancer

ed_209a 03-07-2011 04:18 PM
Re: Battlesuits for smaller users...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer (Post 1134695)
...Battlesuits sized for smaller users give *full* bonuses for DR, Lifting/Striking ST, etc....

Does anyone else find this odd?
I don't find it odd at all, particularly for powered armor. DR is based on the thickness and material of an armor, not how how large a user it has to cover. ST is based on the power of the motors, not the size of the limbs inside them. (ignoring leverage effects...)

Your suit proportions would change, though. That 20mm of BPC and 10mm of artificial muscle that looks so svelte on a 2m pilot probably makes a 1m pilot look like the Michelin Man. On a 3m pilot, it might look like more like a sweatshirt...

Ulzgoroth 03-07-2011 04:42 PM
Re: Battlesuits for smaller users...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer (Post 1134759)
Yes, I get that. The problem I am having conceptualizing is the ST 3 SM-4 with a Battlesuit getting a +10 to Lifting and Striking ST and 150 DR...its smaller so shouldn't the bonuses it gives be reduced...somehow?

Ghostdancer
Quite possibly it should, since bulk concerns would be a major problem if you're putting a few inch thickness of powered armor around something the size of a housecat.

I don't think UT says anything whatsoever about scaling power armor. This doesn't mean that scaled power armor should be exactly the same, it means that UT doesn't say how to spec out larger or smaller armors.


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