Steve Jackson Games Forums

Steve Jackson Games Forums (https://forums.sjgames.com/index.php)
-   GURPS (https://forums.sjgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top (https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=77717)

Jürgen Hubert 03-06-2011 11:43 AM

GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
I still haven't quite given up on converting Exalted to GURPS. This time, I've decided to take a slightly different approach. I want to leave the templates for the Exalted aside for now, and instead concentrate on skills and charms (the innate magical powers of the Exalted) - in particular, as these apply to the Solars, who are paragons of skill.

First of all, some basic guidelines:

- No mortal in the setting, and no Exalted below the age of 100 years, can have a base skill level higher than 20 (elder Exalts may have higher skill levels). If a skill should be increased to higher than 20 because the underlying attribute is increased, the character is "reimbursed" the excess points (which should preferably be invested into charms related to that skill.
- The effective skill level may be boosted by charms beyond the base skill. For Solars, the maximum effective skill level they can reach is (base skill level)x2 -10. For example, if you have a base skill level of 18, you can boost it up to 26 with magic. Other modifiers (like Accuracy bonuses from ranged weapons and the like) can be added afterwards.
- Generally, all Solar charms should be linked to one or more appropriate skills (if in doubt, the GM decides what is appropriate). The maximum number of character points that can be put into a particular charm depends on the base skill level. If several skills are appropriate for a particular charm, the highest skill level determines the number of character points. The following rules apply:

If the use of the charm in question is not obvious and it can function continuously without any drawbacks, the limit is:

(base skill level - 10)x2

Thus, a Solar with an age of 99 years or less could spend a maximum of 20 character points in a single charm of this type.

If the charm either has the Nuisance Effect (Obvious), the Costs Essence limitation, or the Temporary Disadvantage (Reduced Energy Reserve - see below) the limit is:

(base skill level - 10)x10

Thus, a Solar with an age of 99 years or less could spend a maximum of 100 character points in a single charm.

- The character point limits apply after all enhancements and limitations are factored in, so it is entirely appropriate to pick several limitations to get a more powerful effect.

Jürgen Hubert 03-06-2011 12:09 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
In the original rules, 25 different "Abilities" (the equivalent of skills) exist. Solar charms are all linked to a particular Ability, and each Solar has five "Caste Abilities" depending on his type, and five others which he may choose freely. For this purpose, I decided to keep those Abilities as a way of organizing the GURPS skills into different groups. Again, each Solar has five Caste and five Favored Abilities. So, why do these matter?

First of all, it has a huge effect on training. Solar characters should gain huge amounts of character points during play (more guidelines on that at a later date, but at least twice as much as in normal games is probably appropriate), but they cannot necessarily spend them instantaneously to increase skills - often, lengthy training times are necessary. Use the following table:

Learning the first level of a skill (i.e. putting a single character point into it): 3 weeks
Improving a skill or technique associated with a Caste/Favored Ability: Instantaneous
Improving a skill or technique not associated with a Caste/Favored Ability: 4 days per character point
Learning a charm associated with a Caste/Favored Ability: 1 day per 5 character points.
Learning a charm not associated with a Caste/Favored Ability: 1 day per 2 character points.

Learning anything without a teacher will double the time required. Thus, Solars will improve rapidly at their core areas of competence, but other fields will take significantly longer to learn.


The Abilities and Skills associated with the various Castes of Solars are:

Dawn

* Archery: Artillery, Beam Weapons, Blowpipe, Bow, Crossbow, Fast-Draw (ranged weapons), Gunner, Guns, Innate Attack, Liquid Projector, Sling, Zen Archery
* Martial Arts: Boxing, Brawling, Judo, Karate, Pressure Points, Pressure Secrets, Sumo Wrestling, Wrestling
* Melee: Axe/Mace, Broadsword, Cloak, Fast-Draw (Melee weapons), Flail, Force Sword, Force Whip, Garrote, Jitte/Sai, Knife, Kusari, Lance, Lasso, Main-Gauche, Monowire Whip, Parry Missile Weapons, Polearm, Rapier, Saber, Shield, Shortsword, Smallsword, Spear, Staff, Tonfa, Two-Handed Axe/Mace, Two-Handed Flail, Two-Handed Sword, Whip
* Thrown: Bolas, Dropping, Net, Spear Thrower, Throwing, Throwing Art, Thrown Weapon
* War: Soldier, Strategy, Tactics


Zenith

* Integrity: Autohypnosis, Dreaming, Meditation, Mental Strength, Mind Block
* Performance: Captivate, Combat Art, Combat Sport, Dancing, Enthrallment, Erotic Art, Fire Eating, Group Performance, Kiai, Makeup, Mimicry, Musical Composition, Musical Influence, Musical Instrument, Panhandling, Performance, Poetry, Public Speaking, Religious Ritual, Sex Appeal, Singing, Stage Combat, Suggest, Sway Emotions, Ventriloquism
* Presence: Brainwashing, Fast-Talk, Hypnotism, Interrogation, Intimidation, Leadership, Persuade
* Resistance: Body Control, Breath Control, Hiking, Immovable Stance
* Survival: Animal Handling, Falconry, Fishing, Naturalist, Navigation, Packing, Scuba, Survival, Teamster, Tracking, Urban Survival


Twilight

* Craft: Architecture, Armoury, Artist, Bioengineering, Carpentry, Chemistry, Cooking, Electrician, Electronics Operation, Electronics Repair, Engineer, Explosives, Farming, Gardening, Jeweler, Knot-Tying, Leatherworking, Machinist, Masonry, Mechanic, Metallurgy, Photography, Sewing, Smith
* Investigation: Criminology, Detect Lies, Forensics, Fortune-Telling, Intelligence Analysis, Market Analysis, Research, Search
* Lore: Anthropology, Archaeology, Area Knowledge, Biology, Cartography, Computer Hacking, Computer Operation, Computer Programming, Current Affairs, Expert Skill, Games, Geography, Geology, Hazardous Materials, Heraldry, Herb Lore, Hidden Lore, History, Hobby Skill, Literature, Mathematics, Meteorology, Paleontology, Philosophy, Physics, Professional Skill, Prospecting, Spacer, Teaching, Theology, Weather Sense, Weird Science
* Medicine: Diagnosis, Esoteric Medicine, First Aid, Pharmacy, Physician, Physiology, Poisons, Surgery, Veterinary
* Occult: Alchemy, Astronomy, Exorcism, Occultism, Ritual Magic, Symbol Drawing, Thaumatology


Night

* Athletics: Acrobatics, Aerobatics, Aquabatics, Breaking Blow, Climbing, Flight, Flying Leap, Forced Entry, Free Fall, Jumping, Lifting, Mount, Parachuting, Power Blow, Push, Running, Skating, Skiing, Sports, Swimming
* Awareness: Blind Fighting, Body Language, Body Sense, Forward Observer, Lip Reading, Observation
* Bureaucracy: Accounting, Administration, Economics, Finance, Freight Handling, Housekeeping, Law, Merchant
* Dodge: No skills, but the character's unencumbered Dodge value counts as "skill level" for the purpose of charms.
* Larceny: Acting, Counterfeiting, Disguise, Escape, Filch, Forgery, Gambling, Holdout, Lockpicking, Pickpocket, Scrounging, Sleight of Hand, Smuggling, Streetwise, Traps


Eclipse

* Linguistics: Cryptography, Gesture, Linguistics, Propaganda, Speed-Reading, Typing, Writing
* Ride: Battlesuit, Bicycling, Diving Suit, Driving, Environment Suit, Piloting (small vehicles), Riding, Vacc Suit
* Sail: Airshipman, Boating, Crewman, Piloting (large vehicles), Seamanship, Shiphandling, Submarine, Submariner
* Socialize: Carousing, Connoisseur, Diplomacy, Politics, Psychology, Savoir-Faire, Sociology
* Stealth: Camouflage, Invisibility Art, Light Walk, Shadowing, Stealth

Jürgen Hubert 03-06-2011 12:21 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
A few general guidelines for Solar charms:

- Solar charms should always be associated with particular skills - they should improve them or heroically exaggerate their capabilities.
- For the purpose of Solar charms, it is permissible to treat skill and technique character points as advantages, and modify them with enhancements or limitations.
- Techniques, in particular, are useful fodder for Solar charms, and players and GMs are encouraged to come up with new techniques which eliminate modifiers for unusual circumstances and convert them into charms. They shouldn't be so overpowering as to make the main skill useless, but the GM should cheerfully ignore if the results of the technique are implausible or unrealistic - after all, Solars are the quintessential heroes who go "beyond the impossible" on a daily basis!
- In GURPS Exalted, there are no charm trees with weaker charms acting as prerequisites for stronger charms - only lots and lots of example powers which may be modified by players as much as they want, as long as they fit into the overall themes of Solars and don't exceed the usual limits for their character's skill level.
- Solar charms are generally powered by a special Energy Reserve, called their Essence Pool. Points in this Energy Reserve are called "motes".
- Some charms require that you "commit" motes to them. This is the equivalent of a Temporary Disadvantage, and represents a limitation worth -3% per mote committed. This is lower than the normal Costs Energy limitation - but it has the advantage that you don't need to spend more energy after a minute has passed and thus perfect for long-duration charms.

Jürgen Hubert 03-06-2011 12:43 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
And now, let's work out some sample powers.

(Skill) Excellency
Ability: Any, except for Dodge
CP Cost: Determine the maximum skill level you want to achieve, up to the usual limit of ((base skill)x2 - 10). Figure out how many character points it would cost to increase the skill to that level normally. Add a (Costs Energy) limitation with a modifier of (maximum bonus + 1)x5%.

Solars are known for their peerless use of their skills. This charm may be purchased for each skill a Solar has. For each mote put into this charm, the Solar may boost the effective level of the skill by +1 for one second, up to the maximum permissible.

Designer's Notes: The limitation cost for this advantage was calculated as per the explanation for variable fatigue costs on p. 101 of GURPS Powers.

Jürgen Hubert 03-06-2011 12:56 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Flawless Impersonation Style
Ability: Larceny
Prerequisite: Acting at 12+
CP Cost: 12

If a member of the Night Caste wishes to impersonate someone, even strangers will welcome her as her own. By committing 7 motes to this charm he negates all penalties for either unfamiliarity with the subject being impersonated, or trying to fool acquaintances (even close ones) of the subject. However, a disguise is still necessary.

Designer's Notes: This was built as a combination of two custom techniques, one of with eliminates the -5 modifier for lacking acquaintance with the subject, while the other eliminates the -10 modifier for fooling close acquaintances. As he effectively loses 7 levels of his Energy Reserve, this is the equivalent of a Temporary Disadvantage worth -21 points. Without it, the charm would cost 15 CP and require an Acting skill level of 18!

Jürgen Hubert 03-06-2011 01:19 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Craftsman Needs No Tools
Ability: Craft
Prerequisite: Any appropriate Craft skill at 11+ for levels 1-2, 12+ for levels 3-5, 13+ for levels 6-7, and 14+ for levels 8-10.
CP Cost: 4/level

The genius of the Copper Spiders cannot be constrained by the mere lack of tools. By committing 7 motes to this charm, the Solar can reduce the penalties for insufficient equipment (see GURPS Basic Set, p. 345) for creating and repairing items by one per level of the charm - and if he has bought the maximum 10 levels, he can create and repair items without any tools at all! However, only one particular skill can benefit from this at any one time, although the character may switch to a different skill after concentrating for one second.

Designer's Notes: Reducing penalties for insufficient equipment is treated as a technique worth 1 point per level. The ability to use this on all Craft-related skill is treated as a Modular Ability (Cosmic Power) worth a base 10 points/level, with a -40% limitation for "subset of a medium-sized class" (see GURPS Powers, p.64) and -21% for committing 7 motes, for a total of -61%.

Jürgen Hubert 03-06-2011 01:27 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Bountiful Forge Methodology
Ability: Craft
Prerequisite: Any appropriate Craft skill at 11+ for levels 1-2, 12+ for levels 3-5, 13+ for levels 6-7, and 14+ for levels 8-9.
CP Cost: 4/level

Solars have no time to spend whole seasons at the forge to produce their wonders - they have worlds to conquer! By committing 7 motes to this charm, the Solar can reduce the penalties for haste at a task (see GURPS Basic Set, p. 346) for creating and repairing items by one per level of the charm - which effectively means that he can reduce the time spent on such projects by 10% per level of this charm, up to a maximum reduction of -90%. However, only one particular skill can benefit from this at any one time, although the character may switch to a different skill after concentrating for one second.

Designer's Notes: Reducing penalties forhate is treated as a technique worth 1 point per level. The ability to use this on all Craft-related skill is treated as a Modular Ability (Cosmic Power) worth a base 10 points/level, with a -40% limitation for "subset of a medium-sized class" (see GURPS Powers, p.64) and -21% for committing 7 motes, for a total of -61%.

Jürgen Hubert 03-06-2011 02:43 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Leaping Dodge Defense
Ability: Dodge
Prerequisite: For each level of unencumbered Dodge above 10, the character may take up to five levels of this charm.
CP Cost: 2/level

The Solar is as elusive as a dream. By paying 2 motes, the character increases the total number of yards he may move during a single round with the Dodge and Retreat defense by the number of levels he has purchased.

Designer's Notes: This charm assumes that the campaign uses the Chambara Fighting rules (see GURPS Martial Arts, p. 128-130), which are extremely appropriate for Exalted campaigns. This charm is built using additional levels of Basic Move (5/level) with the Accessibility (only when using Dodge & Retreat, -40%) limitation, as well as Costs Energy 2 (one second only, -20%).

Jürgen Hubert 03-07-2011 12:30 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
(Type) Wyld-Shaping Technique
Ability: Lore
Prerequisite: Physics or Weird Science at the usual levels.
CP Cost: 8/level for the "Create" variants, different values for the "Control" variants

The Solars can shape matter out of the rolling chaos of the Wyld. This represents several different charms. First, the Solar needs to purchase one of several variants for raw substances. This works exactly like the Create power (see GURPS Powers, p.92), except that it works only in the Wyld, it costs 2 motes of energy to use, and it requires 8 seconds of concentration to use. The Physics or Weird Science skills may substitute for the IQ roll. Note that the Wyld counts as "normal environment" for any material imaginable.

After that, the Solar may purchase one or more variants of Control (see GURPS Powers, p.90) to reshape these raw substances into more complex forms. Like the Control variants, these also work only in the Wyld, cost 2 energy to use, and require 8 seconds of concentration.

This power can used at the base skill in the Pure Chaos of the Wyld. Regions closer to the Great Machine of Creation already have their reality partially defined, and thus are harder to shape. Apply a -2 penalty in the Deep Wyld, -5 in the Middlemarches, and -10 in the Bordermarches.

The resulting creations are not quite "real" from the perspective of Creation (and thus don't require character points to stabilize). However, they remain in existence as long as they interact with Creation (in the First Age, Wyld regions were stabilized via the establishment of trade routs, for instance). As Chosen of the God of Order, any continued interaction with Solars counts for this purpose.

Designer's Notes: These are Create and Control with Accessibility (Only in the Wyld, -40%), Costs Energy (-10%), and Takes Extra Time (x8, -30%), for a total Limitation of -80%.

Jürgen Hubert 03-07-2011 01:07 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Ox-Body Technique
Ability: Resistance
Prerequisite: Body Control - for each level above 10, the character may purchase two levels of this charm.
CP Cost: 2/level

This charm adds to the character's hit points. As an exception to the normal limits on permanent charms, the character may purchase two levels of this charm for each level the prerequisite skill has above 10.

Designer's Notes: As Ox-Body Technique in the original version approximately triples a Solar's hit points when he buys it five times, I figured permitting up to 20 extra hit points with this for Solars below the age of 100 sounded about right.

Jürgen Hubert 03-07-2011 03:33 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Friendship With Animals Approach
Cost: 3 motes per minute
Ability: Survival
Prerequisite: Animal Handling at 14+.
CP Cost: 39 points.

Even the beasts and birds recognize the heroes of the dawn. This charm allows the character to eliminate all penalties to Animal Handling rolls for wild, dangerous, and untrained creatures, even if the creature in question is a man-eater. However, the character must still have at least one point in the relevant Animal Handling skill. The character must concentrate for a second to switch this effect to a different specialization of the Animal Handling skill (see GURPS Basic Set, p. 175, for specializations).

Designer's Notes: The elimination of the penalty to Animal Handling is treated as a Hard technique with 10 levels, for a base of 11 points. The ability to switch between different Animal Handling specializations is treated like a Modular Ability (Cosmic) worth a base of 110 points with a -50% limitation. Costs Energy adds another -15% limitation.

Dinadon 03-07-2011 04:25 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert (Post 1134124)
Bountiful Forge Methodology
<snip>

What about the Efficient perk? It's similar, also per skill and more cost effective.

Jürgen Hubert 03-07-2011 06:00 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinadon (Post 1134449)
What about the Efficient perk? It's similar, also per skill and more cost effective.

Where can that Perk be found?

Dinadon 03-07-2011 06:47 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert (Post 1134460)
Where can that Perk be found?

PU2: Perks

Jürgen Hubert 03-07-2011 08:17 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinadon (Post 1134472)
PU2: Perks

OK, I bought it and read it.

Hmmm... that perk isn't available in multiple levels, and I'm not quite sure of mixing a perk with a technique that essentially does the same thing...

Jürgen Hubert 03-07-2011 09:30 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
New Technique:

Historical Developments - Average

The character has developed and trained with past developments in a particular TL skill. Each level in this technique reduces the penalties for working with earlier TLs than the specific TL of the skill indicates by one (see GURPS Basic Set, p. 168 for the penalties). If the "base TL" of the character allows it, he may "upgrade" his lower-TL skills by one TL by purchasing two levels of this technique for IQ-based TL skills or one level for other TL skills.


Wonder-Forging Genius
Cost: None
Ability: Craft or Lore
Prerequisites: Any five Craft-associated skills or any five Lore-associated skills at a level at least equal to (desired TL+10).

The genius of the Copper Spiders will not be constrained by the primitive knowledge of mortal sages and artisans. This charm allows the character to purchase the High TL advantage to gain a base TL beyond that of the world surrounding them (which is generally TL3 or lower in Creation of the Age of Sorrows). The maximum TL permissible is (lowest of all prerequisite skills)-10. This limit is in place instead of the normal limitations for permanent charms.

Designer's Notes: TL10 seems appropriate for the maximum TL that a Solar below the age of 100 can attain, so I went with that. Note, however, that a Solar still needs to learn the fundamental basics of a particular TL skill, and most common knowledge about a particular skill in the Age of Sorrows will be at TL3 at best (unless he can discover a First Age database), so he will have to repeatedly upgrade the TL of the skill by taking the Historical Developments technique above. Also note that due to the fundamental differences of the laws of nature of Creation (as it is essentially an artifact that imposes the "laws of nature" upon the Wyld), the TL progression of Creation diverges after TL3, and thus TL10 would effectively be TL3+7 in crossover campaigns.

Dinadon 03-07-2011 09:48 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert (Post 1134505)
OK, I bought it and read it.

Hmmm... that perk isn't available in multiple levels, and I'm not quite sure of mixing a perk with a technique that essentially does the same thing...

Not that much of an issue. Either the perk comes in levels for an Exalted, or more likely that the technique costs less for someone with the perk. It's not as if the latter is without presendece. Combinations cost less for someone with TBAM/WM, DWA(Bow) cost's less for someone with Heroic Archer, and a couple of Scout power ups from DF11 list multiple costs for whether or not the Scout has WM.

Though actually a fair number of techniques in DF11, including the ones I just mentioned for the Scout, use the Unique Technique perk in order to buy up certain techniques at all.

Dinadon 03-07-2011 10:02 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert (Post 1134536)
New Technique:

Historical Developments - Average

The character has developed and trained with past developments in a particular TL skill. Each level in this technique reduces the penalties for working with earlier TLs than the specific TL of the skill indicates by one (see GURPS Basic Set, p. 168 for the penalties). If the "base TL" of the character allows it, he may "upgrade" his lower-TL skills by one TL by purchasing two levels of this technique for IQ-based TL skills or one level for other TL skills.

So in other words a form of the Anachronistic Training technique from Infinite Worlds then? Well, except for the upgrading part. Which honestly I don't quite get it since seems like you can lose points, and GURPS generally doesn't do that.

Whilst buying a new skill costs [1], buying another level of the techniques costs [1], you're also losing the old skill, for [-1]. This, of course, assumes you only have one point in the skill, but even if you have more points invested you are only really spending [1] to improve the technique and then just changing the TL of your base skill.

EDIT: Though I did write that cost comparison before I realized you were doing it by penalty rather than TL. Which is how the Anachronistic Training technique does it.

Jürgen Hubert 03-07-2011 10:17 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinadon (Post 1134543)
Though actually a fair number of techniques in DF11, including the ones I just mentioned for the Scout, use the Unique Technique perk in order to buy up certain techniques at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinadon (Post 1134549)
EDIT: Though I did write that cost comparison before I realized you were doing it by penalty rather than TL. Which is how the Anachronistic Training technique does it.

This makes me realize that I'm not very up-to-date on my GURPS-fu. Well, not playing GURPS for more than five years (and not by choice!) will do that to you... ;)

Thanks for these pointers - I will take them into consideration at a later point when I rework those. In the meantime, I will see what I can come up with for other abilities - and suggestions by other people are very much welcome as well. You don't even need to be very familiar with Exalted - just come up with ideas that enhance or heroically exaggerate particular skills, and try to represent them as advantages similar to those I've posted...

Jürgen Hubert 03-07-2011 02:13 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Flashing Thunderbolt Steed
Cost: 5 motes (commited)
Ability: Ride
Prerequisite: Riding at 16
CP Cost: 53 points

Essence infuses the Lawgiver's mount with infinite energy. As long as the motes are committed, a mount the character rides gains an additional two levels of Enhanced Move (Ground) as well as the Perfect Balance advantage.

Designer's Notes: This is built using the listed advantages with Link (+10%), Affects Others (1 person, +50% - see GURPS Powers, p. 107), Accessibility (only usable on a mount the character is currently riding, -50%), Temporary Disadvantage (5 committed points of Energy Reserve, -15%).

Jürgen Hubert 03-09-2011 01:51 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Excellent Emissary's Tongue
Cost: -
Ability: Linguistics
Prerequisite: Linguistics at 11+ for up to 13 slots, 12+ for up to 30 slots, 13+ for up to 46 slots, and so forth.
CP Cost: 2 points + 0.6 points per slot (round total up)

Essence enhances the Solar's language skills. By studying a language for 10 minutes, he may allot one "slot" of this charm into a language as a character point. He must hear the language spoken in conversation for improving the Spoken part of the language, and study appropriate texts for the Written part of the language.

Designer's Notes: This is the Super-Memorization variant of Modular Abilities as well as Preparation Required (-30%) and Languages Only (-50%, as per GURPS Powers, p. 64). However, this seems to be somewhat broken as once you spend five or more points in other languages, this is better than purchasing the languages directly in every way.

But maybe that's appropriate for Solars...

Dinadon 03-09-2011 03:34 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert (Post 1135659)
Excellent Emissary's Tongue
Cost: -
Ability: Linguistics
Prerequisite: Linguistics at 11+ for up to 13 slots, 12+ for up to 30 slots, 13+ for up to 46 slots, and so forth.
CP Cost: 2 points + 0.6 points per slot (round total up)

This is probably better expressed total points per spoken language that you can switch as needed, and have the limit based on number of languages.

Thus cost is: [4] per language that you can speak fluently, or [3] per language you can speak at a broken level. If you have Language Talent the cheaper version instead gets the language at accented.

(It seemed you were forgetting that most modular abilities can only hold one thing at a time, irrespective of size. Only Cosmic Slots let you arrange points freely. Everything else has to pay (cost for slot + cost per point) per ability they want active at once. Modular Abilities is always more expensive than buying an equivalent number of abilities outright.)

Jürgen Hubert 03-09-2011 07:30 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinadon (Post 1135694)
(It seemed you were forgetting that most modular abilities can only hold one thing at a time, irrespective of size. Only Cosmic Slots let you arrange points freely. Everything else has to pay (cost for slot + cost per point) per ability they want active at once. Modular Abilities is always more expensive than buying an equivalent number of abilities outright.)

Ah, right! I was wondering about that...

OK, another try:

Excellent Emissary's Tongue
Cost: -
Ability: Linguistics
Prerequisite: Linguistics at 11+ for up to 2 slots, 12+ for up to 4 slots, 13+ for up to 6 slots, and so forth.
CP Cost: 4.6 per slot (round up total)

Essence enhances the Solar's language skills. By studying a language for 10 minutes, he may allot one "slot" of this charm to a language and learn to speak or write it like a native. He must hear the language spoken in conversation for improving the Spoken part of the language, and study appropriate texts for the Written part of the language. Once he has filled up his slots, he must voluntarily forget one language to learn a new one.

Designer's Notes: This is the Super-Memorization variant of Modular Abilities with one as well as Preparation Required (-30%) and Languages Only (-50%, as per GURPS Powers, p. 64).


Hmmm. This is still cheaper than learning the language properly...

vicky_molokh 03-09-2011 10:40 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Working without tools is usually a Perk (Accessory), at least for small toolsets.

Jürgen Hubert 03-09-2011 10:52 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh (Post 1135867)
Working without tools is usually a Perk (Accessory), at least for small toolsets.

Well, this power is not supposed to represent a small toolset - it represents an entire workshop. The character is never without the tools he needs. If he wanted to construct an entire vehicle by himself, he could - all he would need are the raw parts.

Mind you, good workshops might provide bonuses to a certain task that this charm won't give, but the character will never feel the absence of tools.

Jürgen Hubert 03-09-2011 04:44 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Increasing Strength Exercise
Cost: 1 mote per +1 ST, half to maintain
Duration: 1 minute
Ability: Athletics
Prerequisite: Breaking Blow, Forced Entry, Lifting, Power Blow, or Push at (desired level + 10)
CP Cost: 9/18/26/33/40/47/53/58/63/68 for levels 1-10

This charm suffuses the character with Solar Essence, temporarily increasing his Strength and causing his muscles to emit a golden glow. He may increase his ST by +1 for each mote he spends upon activating this charm, up to the level he has purchased.

Note: ST-derived skills may not be increased beyond the usual limits by this charm. Furthermore, the prerequisite skill levels for this charm are higher than normally required.

Designer's Notes: This charm is built by a variable number of levels of ST with the variable Costs Fatigue variant from GURPS Powers, p 101, as well as the Nuisance Effect (Obvious) limitation. The higher prerequisite demands were used because this charm adds to an attribute instead of a skill - which doesn't quite fit into the normal portfolio of Solars.

Gef 03-10-2011 01:11 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Looks interesting, but I've no familiar with the source material to evaluate faithfulness. I see nothing wrong with applying modifiers to skill and technique bonuses if it's the best way to model the powers of the exalted. -GEF

Jürgen Hubert 03-10-2011 02:16 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gef (Post 1136257)
Looks interesting, but I've no familiar with the source material to evaluate faithfulness.

Well, I'm mostly trying to recreate the flavor of the original, and not trying to recreate it 1:1 in GURPS - that way lies madness, and not the good kind.

For example, in the original Exalted rules charms are organized into "charm trees" where you have to purchase weaker charms in order to create more powerful ones. I think that trying to implement this in GURPS would run counter to the strengths of the system, and so I ditched it for a more general framework of how construct charms.

Which the original system doesn't have, even though custom charm creation is encouraged. Really, Exalted is considered to have a fantastic setting - where the PCs start out as awesome, world-changing heroes from Day One and only get more powerful. Unfortunately, the system is frankly a mess, and I hope that by trying to convert the spirit of the setting over to GURPS it might become more playable, even though this is a major effort...

Jürgen Hubert 04-08-2011 01:55 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Update: I'm finally reading through GURPS Psionic Powers, and I'm seeing lots of potential in how this book does things. I will have to think about what precisely this means for my conversion, though the Extra Effort rules would nicely map to spending Willpower in the original Storyteller rules. Just to name one example.

Jürgen Hubert 04-11-2011 09:06 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
OK, further thoughts after finishing GURPS Psionic Powers:

- Charms are the equivalent of Psionic Abilties. They may come in levels - in that case, it's possible to temporarily boost them via Extra Effort, just like with Psionic Abilities. This costs Fatigue, not motes, and is the equivalent of spending Willpower in the original Exalted rules. When a skill roll is required for a Charm (including for Extra Effort), you always roll against the prerequisite skill appropriate for the situation.

- Charm Techniques are the equivalent of Psionic Techniques, and are attached to specific Charms. They always cost motes to use (including when you improve the odds of using them), not Fatigue. They are attached to a specific Charm, and you may use them with any of the appropriate prerequisite skill. For instance, if you have learned an Armor-Piercing Technique for an Archery Charm at (prerequisite)-2, and you have Bow-15 and Crossbow-13, you could roll it at a value of 13 if you use a bow and at a value of 11 if you use a crossbow. Young Solars (and Abyssals and Infernals) may develop Charm Techniques which default down to (prerequisite)-20. Other Celestial Exalted may develop Charm Techniques which default down to (prerequisite)-15, and Terrestrial Exalted to (prerequisite)-10. Elder Exalts may exceed these limits.


That's it so far - I think I have now a framework that works well enough to develop Charms and Charm techniques in earnest.

Joel 04-11-2011 12:09 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
TBH the 20xEssense points for charms seems kind of low for some of the effects, you'd be hard pressed to get Shinmaic Calibration on just 140 points.

Personally I'd just set some skill & attribute caps, make templates for castes & different types of exalted, and have the players build appropriate charms/abilities and artifact-gadgets on their own*, which granted is more or less what you were considering in your old gurps exalted thread(s).

*Though some prepared examples might be a good idea.

A problem with converting charms that can be seen in the GURPS exalted pdf is that the characters become unweildy mechanically and point-inefficient.

http://www.bazzalisk.org/GURPS%20Exa...%20Exalted.pdf

The dragonbloods stated there ended up at 1300 points or so, but you could make characters at equal competence for half that if you didnt use charms that become inefficient for their costs when converted to GURPS. Also the char sheets become cluttered and awkward.

They don't turn out like characters built 'naturally' in GURPS.

Jürgen Hubert 04-11-2011 01:34 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel (Post 1154991)
TBH the 20xEssense points for charms seems kind of low for some of the effects, you'd be hard pressed to get Shinmaic Calibration on just 140 points.

My progression is somewhat different - my old table is here, but essentially it goes like this:

Essence 5: Base Skills up to 20
Essence 6: Base Skills up to 25
Essence 7: Base Skills up to 30
Essence 8: Base Skills up to 35
Essence 9+: No limits for Base Skills

I assume you meant Shinmaic Communion. This is an Essence 7 charm, so a Solar capable of learning that would be able to spend up to 200 character on the base charm. And note that I said base charm - with the new Charm Techniques, a Solar can and should be able to add all sorts of enhancements to it which makes it even more powerful. This will cost him significant amounts of additional motes, of course - and additional character points if he buys the techniques up. But the end effect will be quite powerful.

Quote:

The dragonbloods stated there ended up at 1300 points or so, but you could make characters at equal competence for half that if you didnt use charms that become inefficient for their costs when converted to GURPS. Also the char sheets become cluttered and awkward.
Which is why I am so enamored of the basic system in GURPS Psionic Powers. It's a different path of doing things, but in the end the overall style should be similar...

Balthial 04-11-2011 02:14 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
I was just thinking about this the other day. I'm an old Exalted fan but I don't know GURPS too well. I agree that Exalted 2E is an epic disaster. A few thoughts:

1. I agree that you shouldn't try to emulate rules too carefully - I might go even further in this direction, I mean, I'm not sure I would bother with charms at all. But OK, I don't want to rain on your parade.
2. (not used)
3. What rules set are you using? Ie which cinematic rules, what advantages?
4. What is the base template for Solar Exalted?
5. What are the stats for Daiklaves et cetera?
6. What advantages must be taken as charms? Can I take Combat Reflexes normally?
7. Is there a general "Power Modifier" for taking powers as Charms?
8. How do you handle Anima Manifestitations? A 500 m column of light that advertises your presence is worth something in any setting.
9. I think you're going to struggle to get everything pointed using existing GURPS guidelines.
10. Am I right that one mote of essence = 1 FP?
11. How do you deal with Sorcerery?

On specific charms:

1. Excellency: I would stat this as a talent. The math is easier and it more closely resembles the original. I would say any of the 25 Exalted abilities would be a 5 point talent.
2. Craftsmen Needs No Tools: To me it seems like at most a 10 point advantage. Although I guess it is dependent on tech level.
3. Wonder Forging Genius: Personally I would just let people learn the higher TL skills as they have the opportunity. If they can learn them without a tutor that's something like "Ally (Sidereal Librarian) or Ally (First Age Self Appears in Dreams)". To me Tech Levels are really only "Current" and "First Age".
4. Ox Body Technique: I think the cap is too low. To me you're looking at up to 60 total hit points for the high end Solars.

Joel 04-11-2011 07:26 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
No, meant Shinmaic Calibration (Scroll of Errata p. 69), has Shinmaic Communion as a pre-requisite.

Jürgen Hubert 04-12-2011 12:03 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balthial (Post 1155090)
1. I agree that you shouldn't try to emulate rules too carefully - I might go even further in this direction, I mean, I'm not sure I would bother with charms at all. But OK, I don't want to rain on your parade.

For my system, "charms" is mainly a shorthand for "advantages used in a framework similar to GURPS Powers and GURPS Psionic Powers" (especially the latter). I will only rarely bother with prerequisites and the like.

Quote:

3. What rules set are you using? Ie which cinematic rules, what advantages?
Most cinematic stuff, probably. Definitely the Chambara rules.

Quote:

4. What is the base template for Solar Exalted?
I will get to that later, as I judged the Charm framework the most difficult and yet most central part of the conversion. The template will contain Trained By A Master.

Quote:

5. What are the stats for Daiklaves et cetera?
Also to be done later. Once I've figured out the charms, I can see how they interact with artifacts.

Quote:

6. What advantages must be taken as charms? Can I take Combat Reflexes normally?
In general, most mundane advantages - Combat Reflexes included - can be taken normally, without being bought as charms.

Quote:

7. Is there a general "Power Modifier" for taking powers as Charms?
Yes, though it is +0%. Solar charms don't really have much in the way of weaknesses, or else the Priomordials would have used them in the Primordial War. It was the whole point of the Unconquered Sun to triumph over all opposition, and this is reflected in his Exalted.

Quote:

8. How do you handle Anima Manifestitations? A 500 m column of light that advertises your presence is worth something in any setting.
An Obvious limitation to the Peripheral Essence Pool.

Quote:

9. I think you're going to struggle to get everything pointed using existing GURPS guidelines.
Well, I think that using the Charm/Charm Techniques framework outlined above it should be possible to create a conversion that is no more complex than the original, and a great deal more robust and flexible.

Quote:

10. Am I right that one mote of essence = 1 FP?
For the purpose of limitations, yes. The Essence Pool is essentially an Energy Pool.

Quote:

11. How do you deal with Sorcerery?
That's admittedly a major headache. I will probably have to build spells as custom advantages, and maybe simply introduce a cap on the various Circles of Sorcery/Necromancy to represent their various power levels.

Jürgen Hubert 04-12-2011 12:22 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Oh, and regarding Supernatural Martial Arts:

The basic writeups of skills, techniques etc. will be as in GURPS Martial Arts (which I am not very familiar with, so this part of the conversion will have to wait). However, in addition to those, each style will also have charms and charm techniques similar to what is described above. Furthermore, instead of the level of the highest prerequisite skill capping the character points of the charm, the lowest primary skill will cap it. The character point multiplier will depend on whether the Martial Art is Terrestial, Celestial, or Sidereal (Sidereal Martial Arts will likely get a multiplier of x8 or x9 - slightly weaker than equivalent Solar charms, as it should be. Since Elder Sidereals will have very high skill levels, this will still make them a potent threat...).

The main advantage of Martial Arts (apart from having very high base combat skills) will be that you can get charms in this way which are completely out-of-theme for your type of Exalted. For instance, Solar charms won't give you the ability to generate poison as that's out of type - so you learn a Martial Arts style that does give you that ability...

Jürgen Hubert 04-12-2011 05:30 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
I think it would be a good idea to demonstrate how my system works:

Archery

Glorious Solar Bow
2.8 points per level
Prerequisite Skills: Artillery, Beam Weapons, Blowpipe, Bow, Crossbow, Gunner, Guns, Liquid Projector, Sling, Zen Archery

The Solar internalizes the essence of bows, developing his own understanding of what a bow should be. This "internal bow" hs the following statistics:

Damage 1d imp/level, 1/2 D 500, Max 500, Acc 3, RoF 1, Shots 1 (2), Recoil 1.

Alas, the real world is rarely as good as the Solar can imagine it to be. The Solar still needs to hold a physical bow to use this charm, and whenever the physical bow and the internal bow have different statistics, the worse value is used (though in case the physical bow has better statistics, the Solar can still use these values to attack normally, without using the charm). By itself, this charm doesn't do anything - its real purpose is to enable the various charm techniques which improve the performance of the bow, and any such improvements may exceed the base statistics of the physical bow (though they derive from them, if the relevant statistics of the physical bow are worse than those of the internal bow).

Solars may develop similar Charms for other ranged weapons, such as crossbows, firewands, artillery and so forth. All these count as Alternate Attacks, which means that all but the most powerful of the Charms cost only 1/5 in character points. Furthermore, all charm techniques developed for one version work for all other versions of this charm, using the relevant skill values as the defaults.

Statistics: Impaling Attack (Increased 1/2 Range x50, +25%; Increased Max Range x5, +10%; Solar Charm +0%; Breakable (DR 3-5, Size Modifier -2), -35%; Can be Stolen (Contest of ST); -30%; Limited by Power of Physical Bow -20%; Limited Use (2 seconds to reload a single shot), -15%).


Accuracy without Distance
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-5; cannot exceed prerequisite.

This technique allows the archer to ignore all range penalties.


Arrow Storm Technique
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-5; cannot exceed prerequisite.

The arrow arches high into the air, and then duplicates in flight, attacking everyone in a 2 yard radius. For a greater penalty, a larger area may be attacked. As usual, a Solar may buy off up to -20 worth of penalties from this technique.

Radius Penalty
2 yards -5
4 yards -10
8 yards -15
16 yards -20


Essence Arrow Attack
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-2; cannot exceed prerequisite.

The will of the Solar shall not be denied by the frailties of his tools. Using this technique allows the Solar to use the statistics of his internal bow instead of his physical bow.


Lambent Bolt of Annihilation
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-5; cannot exceed prerequisite.

The arrow explodes upon impact in a golden flare. Anything near the darget receives "collateral damage" equal to basic damage divided by (3 x the distance in yards from the blast) (any Armor Divisor does not count for this). Increasing the penalty to -10 decreases the divisor to (2 x the distance in yards from the blast), and increasing the penalty to -15 decreases the divisor to the distance in yards from the blast. These penalties may be bought off as well.

Radius Penalty
2 yards -5
4 yards -10
8 yards -15
16 yards -20


Phantom Arrow Technique
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-2; cannot exceed prerequisite.

Lack of arrows will not deter a Solar archer. This technique will allow a Solar to shoot an arrow made out of pure Essence with otherwise normal statistics, avoiding the need for ammunition and reloading.


Rain of Feathered Death
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-4; cannot exceed prerequisite.

The arrow duplicates in flight, giving the bow a RoF of 2. For a greater penalty, a higher RoF may be gained. As usual, a Solar may buy off up to -20 worth of penalties from this technique.

RoF Penalty
2 -4
3 -5
4-7 -7
8-15 -10
16-30 -15
31-70 -20
71-150 -25
151-300 -30


There Is No Wind
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-10; cannot exceed prerequisite.

You order the Little God of your arrow to seek the target on its own. The arrow gains the Homing quality (see GURPS Basic Set, p.106), using a Para-Radar (see GURPS Basic Set, p. 61) with an increased range of 1000 yards.

Jürgen Hubert 04-12-2011 01:32 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Oh, and obviously weapon enhancing charms would work similarly for the other types of weapons...

Balthial 04-14-2011 06:35 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
The thing is, in main stream Exalted if you want to power up your character you basically must buy charms and combos, meaning you will always have to deal with visible anima banners sooner or later. In GURPS, it will be tempting to "game" the system with a mix of charms and regular advantages so as to avoid ever having to show your banner.

I would say FP can ONLY be bought as part of the Periphereal Essence pool - so a Solar will have their 12 or 14 FP normally and then the periphereal pool. I would put that pool in as part of the template.

Jürgen Hubert 04-14-2011 09:38 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balthial (Post 1157007)
The thing is, in main stream Exalted if you want to power up your character you basically must buy charms and combos, meaning you will always have to deal with visible anima banners sooner or later. In GURPS, it will be tempting to "game" the system with a mix of charms and regular advantages so as to avoid ever having to show your banner.

I think regular advantages ultimately won't be enough to be really competitive in Exalted-level combat, as long as you enforce that characters are limited to purely mundane advantages apart from the charms. I mean, Combat Reflexes are useful in any fight, but they are an addition to combat charms, and hardly a replacement.

Ore more to the point, what kind of mundane advantage would hold a candle to Glorious Solar Bow, as described above?

Jürgen Hubert 04-14-2011 11:52 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Athletics

Eagle-Wing Style
14/23/27/32/36/41/45/50/54/59 for levels 1-10
Prerequisite Skills: Acrobatics, Aerobatics, Flight, Flying Leap, Free Fall, Jumping, Parachuting

The Solar jumpts into the air and refuses to come down. He gains a flight speed equal to two times his Basic Speed, adding one-half his Basic Move for each additional level in the charm. To direct the flows of Essence, the Solar must keep one arm extended before him, rendering it useless for other activities. Furthermore, he cannot fly more than 30 feet above the ground, and must move at least 1/4th his top speed at all times. This charm costs 4 motes to activate and two to maintain per minute of use.

Statistics: Flight (Cannot Hover, -15%; Costs Fatigue, -20%; Low Ceiling (30 foot), -10%; Temporary Disadvantage (One Arm), -20%) [14]. A second level adds Link (+10%) as well as 0.5 levels of Enhanced Move (Air), also with Link and the limitations listed above [23]. Further levels add further half-levels of Enhanced Move (Air).


Descending Raptor Technique
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-2; cannot exceed prerequisite.

Steering his flight with his will alone, the Solar regains use of his second arm, allowing both arms to be used for other activities.


Hovering Sun Technique
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-2; cannot exceed prerequisite.

Looking upon the ground like the Unconquered Sun looks upon on Creation from the Day Star, the Solar can remain perfectly still in the air.


Soaring Eagle Technique
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-1; cannot exceed prerequisite.

This technique allows the Solar to fly as high as he likes, ignoring the usual flight ceiling.

Tuoni 04-14-2011 12:01 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert (Post 1157168)
Statistics: Flight (Cannot Hover, -15%; Costs Fatigue, -20%; Low Ceiling (30 foot), -10%; Temporary Disadvantage (One Arm), -20%) [14]. A second level adds Link (+10%) as well as 0.5 levels of Enhanced Move (Air), also with Link and the limitations listed above [23]. Further levels add further half-levels of Enhanced Move (Air).

Why the link? Enhanced move is always on by default, and if you wanted it to only apply to this charm and not any other form of flight you should use Accessibility:Eagle-Wing Style -10% instead.

Otherwise you're charging the player points for limiting their options.

Other then that it looks awesome.

Edit: Ah, didn't see you also added then limitations from flight. So yeah, Accessibility instead of link.

Jürgen Hubert 04-14-2011 12:35 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoni (Post 1157174)
Why the link? Enhanced move is always on by default, and if you wanted it to only apply to this charm and not any other form of flight you should use Accessibility:Eagle-Wing Style -10% instead.

Otherwise you're charging the player points for limiting their options.

Other then that it looks awesome.

Edit: Ah, didn't see you also added then limitations from flight. So yeah, Accessibility instead of link.

Good point. Presumably, the Enhanced Move doesn't have the Costs Fatigue limitation then, though...

Jürgen Hubert 04-14-2011 01:41 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Another Athletics charm:


Feather-Foot Style
12/23/32/51/60/69/78/87/96 for levels 1-9
Prerequisite Skills: Acrobatics, Aerobatics, Flight, Flying Leap, Free Fall, Jumping.

The ground itself will not dare to cause the rightful rulers of Creation to fall down. This charm costs 4 motes for a minute of activation and four to maintain. The first level allows the Solar to keep his footing on any surface, no mater how narrow, and gives him all the other bonuses of the Perfect Balance advantage. The second level doubles his jumping distance, and the third level doubles it yet again. The fourth level allows him to push off from any surface for his jumps, even unstable ones like water (though lava and the like will still harm him), and only requiring him to touch the "ground" every five seconds. Each additional level doubles his jumping distance yet again.

Statistics: Perfect Balance (Costs Fatigue 4, -20%) [12]. With the second level, Perfect Balance gains Link (+10%), and a level of Super Jump (Costs Fatigue 4, -20%; Link, +10%) is added as well [23]. The third level adds another level of Super Jump [32], and the fourth level removes a level of Super Jump while adding Flight (Costs Fatigue 4, -20%; Link, +10%; Requires Surface, -20%) [51] - as Flight also doubles the character's speed, this means that there is no difference in jumping distance. Further levels add additional levels of Super Jump.


Monkey Leap Technique
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-5; cannot exceed prerequisite.

If you experience a fall or collision, you may roll versus the best of your DX, Acrobatics, or Jumping, at a penalty of -5 per multiple of Jumping Move by which your velocity exceeds your jumping Move (up to additional 15 points of this penalty may be bought off by Solars, as usual). Success means that you take no damage and rebound with 90% of your impact speed.


Soaring Crane Leap
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-5; cannot exceed prerequisite.

You can make midair course corrections. As long as you are airborne, treat your jumping Move as air Move.

Kuroshima 04-15-2011 04:27 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Jürgen, personally, I would make heavy use of Imbuements for an Exalted game. The Glorious Solar Bow, for example, would work much better if you used imbuements instead of your strange construction. Check Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, for the main Imbuement rules; and Perfect Defense (in Pyramid #3/4) for defensive Imbuements; with optionally Psi-Powered Imbuements (in Pyramid #3/12) for an example on how to split the Imbuement Skills into multiple powers and The Mystic Knight (in Pyramid #3/13) for 2 (3 if you count the one that is not suitable to DF, found in the Odds and Ends section of the issue) new imbuement skills, and a template for DF that uses Imbuements.

Really, I feel that having the ability to have your Zweihander (Fantasy-Tech version) cleave through solid steel on a 50 feep mech, if you spend a little of your energy, feel a lot like being able to to have your great daiklave severely hurt a warwalker if the Solar desides to invest a little essence in it...

Jürgen Hubert 04-16-2011 11:52 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima (Post 1157990)
Jürgen, personally, I would make heavy use of Imbuements for an Exalted game. The Glorious Solar Bow, for example, would work much better if you used imbuements instead of your strange construction. Check Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, for the main Imbuement rules; and Perfect Defense (in Pyramid #3/4) for defensive Imbuements; with optionally Psi-Powered Imbuements (in Pyramid #3/12) for an example on how to split the Imbuement Skills into multiple powers and The Mystic Knight (in Pyramid #3/13) for 2 (3 if you count the one that is not suitable to DF, found in the Odds and Ends section of the issue) new imbuement skills, and a template for DF that uses Imbuements.

I've finally sat down and read Power-Ups 1, but while it is an interesting system, I feel it's not really appropriate for what I want:

- I really want a unified set of charm mechanics. The framework provided by GURPS Psionic Powers seems to work well enough for most applications, so I am hesitant to use something different for such an important aspect as attack mechanics.
- I feel it's not really appropriate for Solars. In general, they excel at using at mundane skills, and this in turn grants them magical powers that boost their skill use into the realms of the divine. Adding additional skills for their charms just seems wrong - if they should have to make skill rolls, it should be against their ordinary, mundane skills (with modifiers). And I don't really see a way of turning Imbuement skills into techniques...
- Finally, they don't have all the abilities I need - for instance, I couldn't find a basic damage enhancer anywhere in the list...

Quote:

Really, I feel that having the ability to have your Zweihander (Fantasy-Tech version) cleave through solid steel on a 50 feep mech, if you spend a little of your energy, feel a lot like being able to to have your great daiklave severely hurt a warwalker if the Solar desides to invest a little essence in it...
Well, it's entirely in-genre, but Imbuements don't do that - the best they have is Armor Penetration, but even that only allows them to ignore armor on a Warstrider, and that doesn't do that much damage in itself...

Kuroshima 04-17-2011 04:38 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert (Post 1158697)
I've finally sat down and read Power-Ups 1, but while it is an interesting system, I feel it's not really appropriate for what I want:

- I really want a unified set of charm mechanics. The framework provided by GURPS Psionic Powers seems to work well enough for most applications, so I am hesitant to use something different for such an important aspect as attack mechanics.
- I feel it's not really appropriate for Solars. In general, they excel at using at mundane skills, and this in turn grants them magical powers that boost their skill use into the realms of the divine. Adding additional skills for their charms just seems wrong - if they should have to make skill rolls, it should be against their ordinary, mundane skills (with modifiers). And I don't really see a way of turning Imbuement skills into techniques...
- Finally, they don't have all the abilities I need - for instance, I couldn't find a basic damage enhancer anywhere in the list...

Personally, I feel that cinematic skills and imbuement skills are a better match for the genres behind Exalted, but we can agree to disagree. The tie between charms and mundane skills is IMHO an artifact of the storyteller system, and not anything that should be carried over in a conversion. I would at least leave the Imbuement Skills as Martial Arts charms (and you already have a 3-step ladder: Imbue 1 (Terrestrial), Imbue 2 (Sidereal) and Imbue 3 (Celestial). Using a different subsystem might work to your advantage here, making Martial Arts distinct from baseline charms.

As for not having a base damage enhancer, that's not the province of Imbuement Skills, it's the province of more ST. The "Boosts basic damage" "Imbuement Skill" isn't an Imbuement Skill, it's Power Blow

Quote:

Well, it's entirely in-genre, but Imbuements don't do that - the best they have is Armor Penetration, but even that only allows them to ignore armor on a Warstrider, and that doesn't do that much damage in itself...
The warstrider has both huge DR and huge HP. The DR renders it practically immune to mundane punishment, and the HP makes it last a while against supernatural punishment. Give a solar ST in the 40s, Weapon Master, an oversized weapon (check the rules for scaling weapons and armor in LTC2) so that the min-st of the weapon matches the ST of the solar, and Power Blow. You might consider looking at the fancy weapon materials found in DF8 and Fantasy Tech (A tempered glass weapon is something frightening in the hands of a weapon master with huge ST). Hell, at some point, you might consider giving Exalted the option to purchase Super Effort for some of their ST, probably as a charm, though this should only be applicable for very powerful exalted.

Allow me to show what I mean:

Code:

                                      Damage  Reach  Parry  Cost  Weight  ST
Grand Daiklaive (SM+3 Zweihander)  sw+21 cut    2-7    0F 22050    122.5  49†
or                                thr+10 imp      7    0F                49†

Make it tempered glass (+1/dice) and give it to a solar with Weapon Master, and ST 49. He will deal 7d+43 cut. If he Powerblows and triples his ST, he will deal 17d+72 cut. Once you factor in Penetrating Strike, to bypass DR, the warstrider is probably going to be missing a foot...

EDIT: Now, for defense, you might decide that the same metalurgy that allows 7 yard swords also allows for armor as thick as you need it, and extend the thicker plate rules in Low Tech all the way to infinity (you could call it artifact armor). DR 50 plate would cost $24500 for the chest, and weight 196 lbs. This will blunt most of of the damage from 7d+43 damage blows (leaving them as 7d-7, min 0/avg 17.5/max 35), and the Blunting Armor defensive imbuement skill can be used to double, triple or quadruple it, for DR 100, 150 or 200, making the 17d+72 attack survivable (DR 100 will leave the attack as 17d-28, min 0, avg 31.5, max 74, DR 150 and DR 200 will leave the attack as basically infective, as you can see here)

EDIT2: Against Penetrating Strike, the exalted can counter with Reinforce Armor. Again, I feel that the play of Power Blow vs DR-multiplying Imbuements, and of Penetrating Strike vs Reinforce Armor is a decent substitution to perfect attack vs perfect defense from Exalted.

Jürgen Hubert 04-17-2011 11:24 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Hmmm... Maybe Imbuement Skills would indeed work nicely for some Martial Arts, but in the end I think I will stick with my version for Solar charms - for those, I'd like to keep the number of dice rolls per attack to a minimum.

Kuroshima 04-17-2011 12:48 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert (Post 1158898)
Hmmm... Maybe Imbuement Skills would indeed work nicely for some Martial Arts, but in the end I think I will stick with my version for Solar charms - for those, I'd like to keep the number of dice rolls per attack to a minimum.

That's the single biggest issue with Imbuements, that they add a lot of dice rolls to each and every attack.Of course, it would even be in genre to ask for all attacks to use combos, instead of single imbuement skills, with something akin to "roll for the lowest imbuement skill involved, at -1 per additional imbuement skill". You might even relax that a little, and make it so Transformation skills don't impose penalties, since it's one per attack.

Jürgen Hubert 04-26-2011 01:18 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
I just had a thought: How about simply attaching all the Archery Charm techniques to Weapon Master (ranged weapons) or Heroic Archer?

Exxar 04-26-2011 03:09 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
If you want it to have anything remotely to do with the existing published GURPS material, I can only see it being done with Using Abilities at Default. Check GURPS Powers for the details, but IIRC that treatment is limited to the abilities you wish to default costing no more than the abilities you wish to default from (which would be Weapon Master/Heroic Archer in this case). That might suit you, or it might not, but it could actually make sense in this context.

Jürgen Hubert 06-10-2011 11:32 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
New Enhancements

Affects Group
+50%/level

A variant of the Area enhancement, this enhancement allows someone to affect a distinct social group with an advantage. This may be an organization, a military unit, or a secret society, but it must be a recognizable group, and not a collection of disparate individuals. The user of the advantage needs to interact with at least one recognized member of that group to make the advantage work. The maximum size of the group depends on the level of the enhancement:

Level/Maximum Group Size
1/2
2/5
3/10
4/20
5/50
6/100
7/200
8/500
9/1000

and so forth.

Holy
+20%

Attacks with the Holy enhancement inflict extra damage on beings with the Creature of Darkness disadvantage (their wounding modifier increases by one step) and such wounds heal more slowly than normal wounds (details will be found in the disadvantage description). Furthermore, advantages with the Holy enhancement function as if they had the Cosmic enhancement if opposed by advantages with the Darkness limitation, rendering them utterly ineffective.

New Limitation


Darkness
-10%

Certain attacks and defenses used by Creatures of Darkness cannot stand the holy light of the Unconquered Sun and his righteous servants. If an advantage with the Darkness limitation is opposed by an advantage with the Holy enhancement, the former is considered completely ineffective during this conflict.

David Johnston2 06-10-2011 11:58 AM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
[QUOTE=Jürgen Hubert;1191724]
No enhancement is needed to take advantage of someone else's limitations and disadvantages. One need not get a Cold Iron enhancement on one's "magic sword bought as a gadget" in a campaign with old school fay. It just is iron.

Jürgen Hubert 06-10-2011 12:10 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Johnston2 (Post 1191735)
No enhancement is needed to take advantage of someone else's limitations and disadvantages. One need not get a Cold Iron enhancement on one's "magic sword bought as a gadget" in a campaign with old school fay. It just is iron.

Well, what if you had an attack advantage which you could turn into a "Cold Iron" attack? Shouldn't that be worth more than an otherwise identical attack which isn't "Cold Iron", especially if there are numerous entities out there in the campaign world which are vulnerable to it?

Kuroshima 06-10-2011 12:17 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert (Post 1191724)
New Enhancements

Affects Group
+50%/level

A variant of the Area enhancement, this enhancement allows someone to affect a distinct social group with an advantage. This may be an organization, a military unit, or a secret society, but it must be a recognizable group, and not a collection of disparate individuals. The user of the advantage needs to interact with at least one recognized member of that group to make the advantage work. The maximum size of the group depends on the level of the enhancement:

Level/Maximum Group Size
1/2
2/5
3/10
4/20
5/50
6/100
7/200
8/500
9/1000

and so forth.

This is severely underpriced. The canonical way requires Affects Others, that costs +50% per additional person that should get the benefit of the advantage, and requires them to be in contact with the user, unless you also add Area Effect, that makes it affect them as long as they are in the area. Since this gets ridiculously expensive very very fast, I recommend that you take a look at Auras of Power (Pyramid #3/19), notably at the Aura of Power meta-modifier that I created precisely for this kind of situation. You can tweak it to require less rolls (fixed duration, no roll required), but all targets should fall under the area effect. Simply targeting a random soldier you shake hands with, and giving massive benefits to solders that are fighting a battle half a continent away doesn't strike me as what you're going for, and is incredibly broken anyway.
Quote:

Holy
+20%

Attacks with the Holy enhancement inflict extra damage on beings with the Creature of Darkness disadvantage (their wounding modifier increases by one step) and such wounds heal more slowly than normal wounds (details will be found in the disadvantage description). Furthermore, advantages with the Holy enhancement function as if they had the Cosmic enhancement if opposed by advantages with the Darkness limitation, rendering them utterly ineffective.

New Limitation


Darkness
-10%

Certain attacks and defenses used by Creatures of Darkness cannot stand the holy light of the Unconquered Sun and his righteous servants. If an advantage with the Darkness limitation is opposed by an advantage with the Holy enhancement, the former is considered completely ineffective during this conflict.
Personally, I would make Holy a feature of some attacks, or tie it to a power source. The give the creatures of darkness appropriate disadvantages (vulnerability, weakness, susceptibility, quirk: slow healing when harmed with Holy attacks) and limitations on their advantages (such as Achiles Heel). No need for it being a cosmic stand-in, since AFAIR, vulnerability or weakness (not sure which) makes DR stop protecting the attacks that trigger them.

Kuroshima 06-10-2011 12:21 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert (Post 1191739)
Well, what if you had an attack advantage which you could turn into a "Cold Iron" attack? Shouldn't that be worth more than an otherwise identical attack which isn't "Cold Iron", especially if there are numerous entities out there in the campaign world which are vulnerable to it?

Then define a set of enhancements (and limitations) and toss in the actual composition as a feature, creating a composition meta-modifier: For example, Cold Iron might have linked, neutralize (Fae glamours)

Sunrunners_Fire 06-10-2011 12:27 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima (Post 1191743)
*snips stuff about Affect Group*

Absent buying enough Area-Effect to cover Creation (plus the Wyld plus all the Elsewheres plus Mafleas plus ...), plus enough Affect Other to cover every living, dead, divine, fae and other within those infinities ... all at once ... GURPS doesn't have the appropriate mechanics for the desired effect. As the books put it, there is no fair point cost for infinity.

David Johnston2 06-10-2011 12:51 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert (Post 1191739)
Well, what if you had an attack advantage which you could turn into a "Cold Iron" attack?

Turn it into a Cold Iron attack from what? And how?


Quote:

Shouldn't that be worth more than an otherwise identical attack which isn't "Cold Iron", especially if there are numerous entities out there in the campaign world which are vulnerable to it?
No. It shouldn't. At most the buy-in for exploiting a weakness designed into an opponent should be a 1 point perk. "Accessory: Silver Bullets". All those characters you are lambasting with Kryptonite if they were designed with points got the points for having the weakness. You don't need to pay for it, because they have already paid for it. Although if it becomes too much of a distorting thing, then do it the other way. Don't give the other guys any weakness built into their design, but just let the character buy advantages that let them do extra or strange damage to demons or Martians or whatever.

Sunrunners_Fire 06-10-2011 12:55 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Johnston2 (Post 1191757)
No. It shouldn't. At most the buy-in for exploiting a weakness designed into an opponent should be a 1 point perk. "Accessory: Silver Bullets". All those characters you are lambasting with Kryptonite if they were designed with points got the points for having the weakness. You don't need to pay for it, because they have already paid for it.

Monster Hunters 1 has a Blessed variant that turns your attacks into Silver for the purpose of exploiting weaknesses and vulnerabilities. Costs [15].

Jürgen Hubert 06-10-2011 01:06 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Well... maybe it should pointed out that within the context of Exalted, "Holy" does have some elements of "Cosmic". It is the aura of purview of the Unconquered Sun, the deity who was designed to triumph over all opposition (and who can declare specific creatures to be "Creatures of Darkness").

Jürgen Hubert 06-10-2011 11:55 PM

Re: GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima (Post 1191743)
This is severely underpriced. The canonical way requires Affects Others, that costs +50% per additional person that should get the benefit of the advantage, and requires them to be in contact with the user, unless you also add Area Effect, that makes it affect them as long as they are in the area. Since this gets ridiculously expensive very very fast, I recommend that you take a look at Auras of Power (Pyramid #3/19), notably at the Aura of Power meta-modifier that I created precisely for this kind of situation. You can tweak it to require less rolls (fixed duration, no roll required), but all targets should fall under the area effect. Simply targeting a random soldier you shake hands with, and giving massive benefits to solders that are fighting a battle half a continent away doesn't strike me as what you're going for, and is incredibly broken anyway.

Looking at it, this makes sense.

I'd reduce the "Selective Area" part of the modifier to +10% instead of +20% though, since it only affects one specific group instead of affecting individuals as per the character's choice - there is not as much fine control.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:31 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.